Phillies Remake Roster Quickly Day After Winter Meetings

The winter meetings ended yesterday and then today the Phillies decided to upend everything.

Last things first, the Phillies officially signed Tommy Hunter and Pat Neshek, with both taking the empty spots on the 40 man roster. Both deals have large signing bonuses and small annual salaries. This won’t affect luxury tax money, but it does move money around enough that the Phillies could offset a low payroll by front loading their money for when they spend next year.

The first deal of the night was the Phillies shipping shortstop Freddy Galvis to San Diego Padres for RHP Enyel De Los Santos. The Phillies trading Galvis was not surprising, it is no secret that the Phillies were strongly shopping Galvis and listening on his double play partner Cesar Hernandez. Hernandez still could be dealt, but unlike Galvis the Phillies don’t need to move Hernandez. De Los Santos will join a Phillies farm system heavy in pitching. Like many of the arms already in the system, De Los Santos has his flaws. In his case it is a poor breaking ball. Otherwise he has a potentially plus changeup and a mid 90s fastball with life. He profiles as a #4 starter, but there might be some more upside if he can improve his third pitch. It is a good return for an expiring contract on a flawed player.

Then the Phillies decide to get weird.

Three years and $60 million to Carlos Santana weird.

Carlos Santana is a 1B/DH, he has played catcher, third base, and left field, but those are all emergency contingencies. The Phillies have Rhys Hoskins at first base who can fake LF, and faking left field is the plan on paper for the next 3 years. That leaves the Phillies with 4 young outfielders in Rhys Hoskins, Nick Williams, Odubel Herrea, and Aaron Altherr. The current rumor and speculation is that the Phillies will use combination of an outfielder and a second baseman (Kingery or Hernandez) to get a young controllable starting pitcher.

For now we can only work with what the Phillies have now. Here is the 2017 opening day starting lineup and their 2017 stats:

  1. 2B Cesar Hernandez – .294/.373/.421
  2. LF Howie Kendrick – .315/.368/.475
  3. CF Odubel Herrera – .281/.325/.452
  4. 3B Maikel Franco – .230/.281/.409
  5. RF Michael Saunders – .202/.256/.344
  6. 1B Tommy Joseph – .240/.289/.432
  7. C Cameron Rupp – .217/.299/.417
  8. SS Freddy Galvis – .225/.309/.382

Here is a rough projected 2018 opening day lineup with 2017 stats.

  1. 2B Cesar Hernandez – .294/.373/.421
  2. CF Odubel Herrera – .281/.325/.452
  3. 1B Carlos Santana – .259/.363/.455
  4. LF Rhys Hoskins – .259/.396/.618
  5. RF Nick Williams – .280/.328/.511 / Aaron Altherr – .272/.340/.516
  6. 3B Maikel Franco – .230/.281/.409
  7. SS J.P. Crawford – .214/.356/.300
  8. C Jorge Alfaro – .318/.360/.514

There are some small sample stats in there, but immediately Carlos Santana joins Rhys Hoskins in giving the Phillies some great on base percentage in the middle of the lineup. It also pushes Maikel Franco further down in the lineup where if he bounces back he will be big boost to the Phillies. Nick Williams has some issues and Aaron Altherr has been hurt, but he is a big upgrade on what Michael Saunders gave the Phillies to start the year. If the Phillies do move Cesar Hernandez they will take a temporary hit, but Scott Kingery might be a more dynamic player.

Three years is a reasonable amount of years for Santana and $20M per does not leave a lot of extra value. The Phillies also lose their 2nd round pick in the 2018 draft and lose $500,000 off their 2018-2019 international signing pool. Santana also had his power number slip last year after a career year in 2016. But what the Phillies are paying for is consistency. Here are Santana’s OBP since becoming a regular in 2011: .351, .365, .377, .365, .357, .366, .363. No matter what his power output is, he is going to give the Phillies solid offensive output and more importantly that consistent middle of the order presence they have been missing.

For now the move is a bit perplexing, but the offseason isn’t over and the Phillies are undeniably better than they were to start the day.

Leave a Reply

*

69 comments

  1. Steve

    December 16, 2017 09:24 AM

    I’m not saying I don’t like Santana. The obp is refreshing, the power is consistent, and it’s not super long term. I’m just not sure that I understand how much it improves the team long term. Unless there is another move comming where we package an OF, I don’t see where Santana is worth 20 mil just so Altherr or Williams can sit on the bench.

    • Andrew R.

      December 16, 2017 09:30 AM

      Steve, Phillies had to be a little bold this offseason. We can’t go into next Free agent class telling all the big fish we are close to getting to .500. Those guys are going to want money and will want to get paid. As we have seen with Giancarlo and Machado, many teams are emerging, willing to spend upwards of $29M per year, for the right guy. We will have stiff competition for Machado, as I believe he is more valuable than Harper.

      If anything, this puts us in the map as a team serious about winning and improving.

      • Steve

        December 16, 2017 10:51 AM

        I get that, and if they use the excess OF to significantly improve somewhere (preferably SP) then I’m good with it. I’m just saying that I’m not sure that replacing any of our OF with Santana is an upgrade, especially one worth 20 mil per yr. The pressure is on Klentak now to successfully navigate the second part of this.

      • Andrew R.

        December 16, 2017 11:22 AM

        Steve, you have to take money out of the equation. Money is virtually no object. We know what we are getting in Santana, and he’s moving to a hitter’s ballpark from what is seen as a pitcher’s ballpark.

        Go back to when the Tigers were 43-119 and they signed Ivan Rodriguez. 3 years later, they were in the World Series. I feel like this is one of those moves.

      • Steve

        December 16, 2017 01:08 PM

        Money is no object for one year deals. But now we have a 20 mil contract committed for at least 18 and 19, I’m thinking most of us are hoping to see a 20 mil SP and a 30 mil 3b added to this team over the next 2 years. Not to mention some very good young players that will be approaching arbitration or contract extensions.

      • Andrew R.

        December 16, 2017 03:29 PM

        Steve, we could literally sign darvish to $25M and machado and Harper for $40M apiece and still be under the luxury tax limit next year. I’m sure Middleton and the other billionaire owners appreciate your concern for their pocketbooks.

      • Andrew R.

        December 16, 2017 06:24 PM

        Well guess what, Steve!?! Dodgers now gonna be under the luxury tax this year, same with yanks. Do you really wanna keep being crappy hoping to land machado or harper next offseason? Both those teams can and will spend like savages. We’re gonna walk away with nothing next year.

        But yeah, let’s keep saving our owners’ money. Foolish reasoning.

      • Steve

        December 16, 2017 08:25 PM

        -
        -12

        Just because they have the room under the luxury tax, doesn’t mean they are going to spend it. Sure in 09, 10, 11 when they were selling the farm to try and win a 2nd WS, the owners allowed the FO to go right up to the cap. They may not be as willing to spend money on a .500 team (maybe). I’m just saying they spent 60 mil on a position we didn’t need to fill. So unless they can use this signing to make a trade for something we do need, I just don’t see the point.

      • Andrew R.

        December 16, 2017 11:00 PM

        First off Steve, the team does fine and makes money just fine. Now they added $100M a year just from Comcast. I still don’t know why you are so concerned for John Middletons wallet.

        Phillies need wins. They need to improve anywhere and everywhere they can. Adding Santana does that. Altherr will be 27 and hasn’t proven to be durable enough to last a full season. He isn’t that dynamic of a player that he brings soooo much value over 100 games. And we can throw garbage out there for the other 62.

        Santana is a smart move. And now, it’s looking like Machado and Harper will have many options to sign. You cannot build your team through free agency alone. The team has made an improvement. I would suggest signing Darvish too. Let’s make some noise this year!!

        You’re the type of person that would’ve complained if we added Stanton too. Would you complain if the Phillies acquired Trout tomorrow? Is it because we need pitching? That’s the dumbest argument.

        When your team improves, you applaud the decision. Not cry about money. That makes Noooooo sense.

      • Steve

        December 17, 2017 10:02 AM

        It depends what we would give up for Trout. He is the best player in baseball right now, but how many WS have the Angels won with him? I wouldn’t decimate our roster or farm system for him.
        I would gladly have taken Stanton for money and a small prospect package. He is also younger and has more offensive upside than Santana and wouldn’t force Hoskins to the OF.
        I would pay Darvish on a three year deal, but I’m guessing he is looking for at least 5 years.
        I’m not saying I don’t want Santana. I’m saying they need to get the second part of this move right. That is all. I hope they do, and I hope Hoskins can handle the move to OF full time.

      • Bary Onyx

        December 18, 2017 09:50 AM

        Andrew, I mostly agree with your point of view, but not your argumentative style. You’re being a jerk. Chill.

        Steve, I understand your concerns about Santana and initially I shared them. But this isn’t really a “long term” deal as much as it is a “mid term” deal. I wouldn’t call 3 years long term.

        Adding Santana adds stability to a young and therefore streaky lineup. Santana gives us a nice mixture of young and veteran, and of OBP guys and free swingers (I recognize the value of a walk and taking pitches, but I’m sorry Abreau just infuriated me sometimes. I think a mix of both is good).

        Also, he opens up an outfielder for potential trade. Or not. I was excited to see what a full year of Odubel, Altherr, and Williams could do. But that’s because I’m a hopeless optimist that believes each of them (and Hoskins) are a no doubt major leaguer/ potential allstar. At least one of them, if not more, probably isn’t.

        Adding Santana also sends a message that we are ready to spend money to put a contender on the field.

    • Jerry Spradlin

      December 16, 2017 10:01 AM

      I don’t think Altherr or Williams will end up sitting on the bench. I think one of them will be part of a package to get a starting pitcher.

    • 4ester

      December 16, 2017 10:46 AM

      This might be a move with an eye on the long-term actually. We’ll need to keep tabs in Clearwater this year and see how Hall keeps movin along. After Santana’s contract expires, Hall could be our next 1B….he could be a monster in the making actually with some similarities to Hoskins. Let Rhys get acclimated to LF, let’s see how things play out. Now hoping they can put something together to go get Stroman

      • Romus

        December 16, 2017 11:04 AM

        Agree with you on Hall….he will be a monster….this year in CLW it will be fun watching both him and Haseley batting in the top of that order.

      • Matt Winkelman

        December 16, 2017 11:51 AM

        I don’t want to be the bucket of cold water, but there was not a single talent evaluator I talked to this year that believed in Hall’s ability to hit. They cited his struggles against offspeed pitches, his aggressive approach, problems vs LHPs, and long swing all as places that prevented him from being a real prospect.

        On just the Hoskins vs Hall front. In their first pro seasons.
        Hall: 503 PA 29 BB 117 K
        Hoskins: 567 PA 55 BB 99 K

        Hall will not be in my top 50 prospects in the Phillies system.

      • Romus

        December 16, 2017 12:26 PM

        Lets let it play out.
        His first two years in college his peripherals were excellent, then the third year at DBU the coach incorporated the lift and his power sprung up.

        And for just eFor entertainment purposes only, here’s what Hall (top) and Hoskins (bottom) did as college juniors…or their last year before their June draft.
        .298/.417/.615 with 30 BB/49 K in 218 AB…Hall
        .319/.428/.573 with 39 BB/31 K in 213 AB….Hoskins
        Hall gets the slight edge in power (plus raw), though the Hoskins of today would surely give that a run for its money. IMO Hoskins the edge as a hitter, but it’s really not that far apart.
        Approach is a win for Hoskins, but with the caveat that the move away from the mound could help Hall see some gains in this area.
        Lakewood did not see that for Hall however but the power was legit for sure.
        How it all translates for Hall in a year down the road in the upper minors will have to see.
        Conclusion…on balance, Hoskins edges Hall, but it’s close enough that the wishful thinking that Hall can be one of baseball’s next under-the-radar first base prospects feels warranted.
        I want to see how MLB rates him next July as for 1st basemen

      • Eddie

        December 17, 2017 07:58 PM

        Hoskins had a 12% K rate in one of the better baseball conferences.
        Hall had a 19% rate in his one season at a much-lower-level conference.
        That’s a huge difference.

        Hall is likely not among the 50 best prospects *at 1B alone.*

      • Steve

        December 18, 2017 01:11 AM

        Hall Will never make it above AAA.

      • Bary Onyx

        December 18, 2017 09:57 AM

        Yeah, I’m not in on Hall. He’s a low level mistake punisher, nothing more.

        Jhailyn Ortiz on the other hand will be (hopefully) finishing up his year at AA when Santana’s contract expires. There’s talk of a potential need to shift him to 1B. Or he can stay in the OF and Hoskins can go back to 1st.

    • Romus

      December 16, 2017 10:58 AM

      Steve…it does move Hoskins off first to LF…for three years anyway, but at least the Phillies are showing some initiative now to move to contend.
      IMO, Williams , Altherr or Herrera gets moved. Herrera gets the most in return, Williams has the potential and Altherr is steady as she goes….but is a RHB

      • Bill G

        December 18, 2017 02:50 PM

        The problem with Altherr is that parts of him seem to have been crafted from papier mache. He rakes when he’s on the field, and provides pretty solid defense, but he misses swaths of games.

  2. Andrew R.

    December 16, 2017 09:27 AM

    I love this signing. We act like we have a rich history of running out gold glove left fielders. From Luzinski to Pat Burrell, to Raul Ibanez, to Delmon Young. I feel like Hoskins is already an upgrade over them. If he mashes, any miscues will be forgiven.

    I have always loved in base percentage. Crawford over Galvis, Hoskins over ToJo, and now throw Santana in the mix. A switch-hitting, gold glove caliber player is going to do so well for us.

    With all our outfielders, I wouldn’t be opposed if the Phillies tried for Yelich. Since Miami is already down 2 outfielders, I’d package Altherr, Williams, and Cesar just as a starting point for Yelich, Dan Straily, and an expensive contract. I’m gonna have to stop there as the possibilities for deals are limitless at this point.

    • Romus

      December 16, 2017 11:01 AM

      Andrew R…that would make sense …with Straily you get your SP…..and Yelich I assume goes to a RF or Herrera goes to RF.
      If Quinn ever stays healthy he is the 4th OFer in the equation.
      Cozens and Pullin could also be in play after June as corners.

      • Steve

        December 18, 2017 01:13 AM

        `Pullin isn’t going to make it dude. Cozens can’t stay off the slop pitches and until he does its the beautiful Lehigh Valley for him.

      • Rob

        December 18, 2017 02:42 PM

        Herrera goes to Miami.

    • Romus

      December 16, 2017 11:02 AM

      Also I would try to get that CBA pick from the Fish, since the Phillies lost the 42nd pick with the Santana signing.

    • Mike Fassano

      December 16, 2017 02:01 PM

      -
      -10

      Andrew R. I like your trade. I would substitute Herrera and keep Altherr. I think the Marlins are going to trade Castro, so Cesar fits right in. Let’s face it, how many Jersey’s are they going to sell in Miami with the name Castro on the back? Maybe, we take Prado’s contract off their hands.

      • Steve

        December 17, 2017 03:14 PM

        Maybe they can just pawn Herrera to the Marlins. Would not trade Williams or Altherr but Herrera might get you a pitcher. Think about the Sox and Moncada trade.

      • Bill G

        December 20, 2017 05:18 PM

        Mike Fassano – baseball analysis of the trade aside (and I’m not criticizing it), I cannot understand how anyone could find fault with the line “how many jerseys are they going to sell in Miami with the name Castro on the back?”

        I applaud you, sir.

    • awh

      December 16, 2017 03:16 PM

      What this trade says to me is that by crowding the OF – at least temporarily – is that the guy they will really break the bank for next offseason is Machado – not Harper.

      Yes, other moves and trades can always happen, but by being willing to send Hoskins to the OF for the next 3 years, is that Machado is the guy they covet.

      Santana will also function nicely as a DH in AL parks in 2018, though they only have 7 games scheduled there this season.

    • Bill G

      December 18, 2017 02:51 PM

      And hey…Hoskins already has a triple play in his career. The defensive possibilities are ENDLESS!!!

      • Andrew R.

        December 19, 2017 03:22 PM

        I’m not saying that. I’m laughing at the people who get a little taste of defensive metrics and all of a sudden average or somewhat below average left fielders have no place in our team. They’re probably the same people who think we should keep Tommy Joseph around.

        The triple play comment has nothing to do with anything.

      • Bill G

        December 20, 2017 05:20 PM

        I was kidding. Thought the multiple exclamation points would delineate that…that’s on me. Laugh lines are really lost around here…

        In all seriousness – if he’s average defensively, it’s a win.

  3. Scott B

    December 16, 2017 05:42 PM

    Playing keyboard GM here. Speaking of “young controllable SP”..what about Carlos Santana’s old teammate Trevor Bauer? He isn’t a a free agent until 2021. Cleveland could use some cheap 1B and RP options which the Phillies have some laying around. Put together a package of:
    Tommy Joseph
    Edubray Ramos
    one of Altherr/Williams
    one of Eflin/Pivetta/etc

    • Steve

      December 18, 2017 01:15 AM

      If you want something good you have to give something with value perceived or real. Package Hernandez and Herrera and you will get something. Other than that you may as well keep wishing.

      • Romus

        December 18, 2017 03:23 PM

        If KC loses Cain, perhaps Herrera and an Eshelman will bring back Duffy and a premier prospect. Then again, take on Ian Kennedy’s contract off their hands, and maybe the Phillies can get a return of KC’s CBA 36th pick also.

  4. Major Malfunction

    December 17, 2017 09:37 AM

    I think Santana is better in the 2nd hole in the lineup. He’s a high OBP guy that is better suited to be moved by hitter behind him and score runs. I also think having him 2nd could give Hernandez more pitches to run on and actually increase his value more. Plus Santana is a slow lumbering runner and has propensity to hit into double plays. You don’t want that out of your 3 hole hitter. Keep Herrara in the 3 hole. Now you have S,S,L,R,L,R,L,R handedness through your starting lineup. That’s quite nice versatility and really makes interesting attempts by the opposing team’s bullpen.

    • Steve

      December 17, 2017 09:52 AM

      Why would you want your 2 hole hitter to be someone with a propensity to GIDP? Plus when he does get on (which he has shown the ability to do at an above average rate) he will clog the bases for a guy like Odubel who has the ability to hit a lot of doubles. Opening day:
      Hernandez
      Herrera
      Santana
      Hoskins
      Williams or Altherr
      Alfaro
      Franco
      Crawford
      Nola

      End of year:
      Crawford
      Herrera
      Santana
      Hoskins
      Williams/Altherr
      Alfaro
      Kingery
      Franco

      • awh

        December 17, 2017 02:24 PM

        “Propensity” to GIDP?

        I’m not sure Santana’s propensity to do so is all that significant. During his career he has GIDP 108 times in 4782 PA – that’s once every 44.27 PA, or 14.64 times in a 650 PA season.

        In 2017 in MLB there were 3804 GIDP in 185,295 PA – that’s once every 48.71 PA, or 13.34 times in a 650 PA season.

        Granted, Santana has been a bit worse at it the last 4 seasons, 62 GIDP in 2681 PA – once every 43.24 PA, or 15.03 times in a 650 PA season.

        But is that really statistically significant enough of a difference to move his high OBP down in the lineup?

        Also, are you implying that by “clogging the bases” when Odie is at the plate that Santana can’t go from 1B to 3B on a double? Stats over at Fangraphs (BsR) seem to indicate his baserunning has improved the last three seasons, and that he’s been about average during that period, so I’m not sure of your point here.

      • Romus

        December 17, 2017 04:52 PM

        Tied for 121st in the majors for GIDP with 11 in 2017.
        About middle of the pack….but for a power guy, compared to those who hit 20 or more HRs, it is plus or above average, that is…..he does well in that area.

      • Ed

        December 19, 2017 05:05 PM

        Odubel has a lot of potential to be traded or pawned off.

    • Steve

      December 17, 2017 10:15 PM

      I didn’t label Santana as a guy who hits into a lot of DP, I was just questioning MM’s logic.

      My point with Herrera was two fold, and I probably didn’t elaborate on it very well. 1) If Doobie hits a ball in the gap with Cesar on 1st there is a much better chance it turns into an RBI double then with Santana. 2) If Doobie hits a double in front of Santana, the traditional ground ball double play is taken out of the equation.

      • Major Malfunction

        December 18, 2017 08:56 AM

        Don’t the stat heads on this site always talk about playing to the numbers rather than the old school thoughts on how a batting order goes? He’s a high OBP guy. Would it not be better to hit him 2nd?

        For someone that can work the count, it allows base runners in front of them to get more opportunity to run. That in itself can lower the number of GIDP taking place. Let’s face it, he’s not a quick guy.

        But if you look at his ABs historically, he’s been used all over the batting order. Just last season he had 174 ABs leading off, but seems to do his best work in the 5th hole. Overall through his career, he has a .186 AVG in the 2nd spot, .236 in the 3rd spot, and .229 at cleanup. Maybe all of this is irrelevant and he’s a product of lineup spot protection? He’s batting an .866 OPS in the 5 hole. I find this interesting there is such a disparity between the 5 slot and all the others combined.

        So with career numbers saying he’s BELOW AVERAGE in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th slots, it’s puts some intrigue into what exactly are the Phillies getting when they plug him into those slots in the NL.

      • Romus

        December 18, 2017 10:32 AM

        Did you take into consideration…..with the DH in play in Cleveland……he may have been fronted or behind a power guy like Encarnacion, which will certainly dictate what type of pitches he would be seeing.

      • Ed

        December 19, 2017 05:06 PM

        You’re assuming that Herrera actually runs out of the box instead of admiring his barreled up ball.

  5. rlh1004

    December 18, 2017 02:47 PM

    I like the move. The Phillies are better after the move than they were before it, so it’s a good move in my book. I also think it’s a bit of bet-hedging by the Phils in that they get a proven, consistent bat at 1B where they previously had a more-or-less unproven kid.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Hoskins and think he has the skill and approach to continue his success (albeit not at the ridiculous rate of 2017), but I don’t see a problem in going and getting more of a sure thing.

    Also, Hoskins played a passable LF and, as others have mentioned, it’s not like the Phils have a rich history of gold-glove play in LF. From 2000 to 2011 their left fielders were: Pat Burrell, and Raul Ibanez…

    • Eddie

      December 18, 2017 05:44 PM

      I’ve never understood the “argument from history.”

      The 1980 team won with a 1B that slugged .354. It does not follow that if they get that from Santana it’ll be just fine. You might as well watch a team win a 1-0 a ballgame and conclude “hey, it’s not a problem if you only score 1 run a game.” Winning in spite of a weakness does not mean it stops being a weakness.

      • rlh1004

        December 19, 2017 10:59 AM

        I think you’re misunderstanding me a bit. I agree with your sentiment. My point is that Pat Burrell and Raul Ibanez were both major contributors offensively and merely average (if not slightly below average) defensively but were solid contributors to the team. I’m not saying that I love Hoskins in LF, but I’m seeing that there are many examples of a replacement level defensive player being a valuable contributor to a winning team due to the offset that their offense provides.

      • Eddie

        December 19, 2017 03:36 PM

        If that’s your argument , that’s easily said. You could also point out that LF defense is, relatively, not all that important.

        But bringing up the fact that this franchise has had poor LF play in the past is irrelevant. Hoskins’ poor D is no more or less of an issue because of who played the same position for the same franchise 15 years prior.

      • rlh1004

        December 19, 2017 04:51 PM

        You win Eddie.

        Let me formally retract my irrelevant statement of fact. I apologize to all those I offended.

      • Romus

        December 19, 2017 05:53 PM

        rlh1004….LOL….no need to apologize…you are entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us. Keep them coming.

  6. Mike Fassano

    December 19, 2017 09:54 AM

    We all want starting pitching. The complaint from some is that Arrietta and Darvish will only be effective for a couple more years. So what? By that time Eshelman, Kilome, Medina, and even De Los Santos will be ready.
    If you want the young and controllable pitcher, you’re going to give something up. For Stroman or Archer, teams will ask for Sanchez or Kingery, or both. I’m more inclined to trade Sanchez because he’s still a couple of years away, and a lot can happen. On the other hand, Kingery is so close to being ready for the Show …
    What do we have to offer? We have an extra outfielder, 2nd baseman, 1st baseman, and catcher. We can also offer pitchers with MLB experience (Lively, Pivetta, Eflin, and Thompson). Let’s see what else we can offer. Prospects, we have prospects coming out of our yazoo. Anything else? We got money, if that sweetens the deal a little bit.
    Personally, I’d sign Arrietta or Darvish, and keep the prospects.

    • Steve

      December 19, 2017 01:24 PM

      We have an abundance of young OF talent. Hoskins, Altherr, Herrera, Williams, Quinn, Cozens, Randolph, Hassley, Moniak, and Ortiz. Now, none of them are perfect, but almost all of them have fairly significant upside. Depending on what tiers SP you want, and the other team’s wants. You may be able to center a trade package around two of these guys, and a pitcher who isn’t Nola Sanchez Kilome or Medina. If you want a lock down ace (although I’m not sure one is available currently) you’re going to have to give up a SP prospect with ace potential, and most teams are going to want Sanchez. To me, Duffy, Archer, and probably even Stroman aren’t great enough to include Sanchez Kingery or Hoskins. If I’m giving them up I want a no doubt about it stud. Im curious what a package would look like to acquire Gerrit Cole. I would put him in the same tier as Stroman or Archer. I tend to agree with Mike though, if we could get Darvish or Arrieta on a 4 year deal I’m in.
      Another guy I would be interested in trading for is Kevin Gausman. I think he could be had for a more modest return than Archer, Stroman, etc.

      • Mike Fassano

        December 19, 2017 09:58 PM

        The one name that isn’t getting mentioned a lot lately is Fulmer. I think the best four pitchers that fit the Phillies plans are Archer, Stroman, Fulmer, and Cole (in that order). All four will generally work into the 7th inning, and along will Nola, it gives the bullpen an easy night. I think Detroit might be the best team to deal with because they need so much. We could offer a starting outfielder and infielder, a pitcher with MLB experience (Lively, Eflin), Cozens, and another prospect in the 11 to 20 range

      • Steve

        December 19, 2017 10:20 PM

        Fulmer is tough because of the injury. Either Detroit sells low, or someone pays a lot for someone rehabbing a major injury. That being said if we can get him for Williams, Cesar, Lively and a 11-20 prospect, sign me up.

      • Steve

        December 19, 2017 10:21 PM

        Oh and Cozens….. I’m still good with it.

    • Romus

      December 19, 2017 03:32 PM

      Mike Fassano……you forgot another ‘offering’ that the Phillies have at their disposal….the ability to take on another team’s bad contract and with it a prospect or two.
      The Phillies have plenty of room under the luxury tax to absorb that kind of financial hit.
      That is…..the Phillies could take on a Matt Kemp, plus a Dodger prospect……or take on an Ian Kennedy from the Royals, along with added assets..
      The Jeter/Hill -led Marlins are looking to save money…..Prado and Chen are two contracts they may be willing to ‘trade-off’ also.

      • Ed

        December 19, 2017 05:12 PM

        The Phils are probably done with the bad contract stage of the rebuild.

      • Mike Fassano

        December 20, 2017 09:10 PM

        Do the Marlins have any decent pitchers? I like Straily a little bit, but is there anybody else in their rotation? If there is, I’m in. Miami is broke and the Phillies have deep pockets. Why make a trade when you can buy whoever you want?

      • Mike Fassano

        December 24, 2017 10:10 AM

        It’s going to be tough to make the 25 man roster this year. The Phillies should be past the point of adding bad contracts. Personally, I don’t want to see a kid shipped out to Lehigh to make roster room for a bad contract.

      • Andrew R.

        December 24, 2017 12:17 PM

        Mike, I agree. However, taking on a bad contract and the. Cutting the player could also be an option like when the braves took on Carlos quinten’s contract and cut him. Or when Phillies acquired Matt Harrison and eventually cut him.

        If Matt Kemp landed, say, Alex Verdugo and we cut Kemp, I think it would be well worth it.

      • Romus

        December 24, 2017 02:03 PM

        MikeF……taking on a bad contract does not always mean a prospect is blocked. And realistically, the only valuable postional prospect who will be at LHV come April, perhaps if Cesar is not moved, will be Scott Kingery.
        (I think Cozens will need almost a full years worth of experience there)
        If it were bad contracts, I would lean more towards starting pitchers, as I mentioned above with Ian Kennedy who could be tagged with Duffy. But the GM needs to make it worthwhile….like the Royals CBA pick, though a majority of teams are now holding those picks more now, than in the past.
        The aspect, which this GM does not seem to utilze appropriately, is the July trade chip …..he missed the boat on Hellickson in 2016 when JH had peek value, and at least in 2017 got something from the Os. The GM needs to pull the trigger sometimes faster than he has been doing.

    • Ed

      December 19, 2017 05:11 PM

      Arietta? Never. He’s on the steep slippery slope to Palookaville. Darvish maybe on a 3 year deal. Keep the prospects

      • Mike Fassano

        December 19, 2017 10:17 PM

        I think Arrietta, Darvish, Cobb, and Lynn will be off the market by Sunday. That will thin out the competition for the Phillies.

  7. Mike Fassano

    December 20, 2017 08:20 AM

    If I took a poll of Phillies fans, most would predict that the Phillies will finish between 5 games under and 5 games over .500 next year. That’s where the team stands today, but your guess is as good as mine as to where the team will stand on opening day.
    At this point, we have one major need. An Ace would be preferable, but a starter who will consistently pitch into the 7th inning and win a dozen games will do. The great unknown for the Phillies this year, and few people talk about, is the coaching staff. With two hitting coaches, and three former pitchers on the staff, I wonder if this will be an asset or will they be tripping over each other. Time will tell.
    The Phillies will acquire another starter, and with Nola, we’ll have a good one-two punch. Eickhoff will return (fingers crossed), and a dozen other pitchers will fight it out for the final two spots in the rotation.

  8. rlh1004

    December 20, 2017 11:31 AM

    So I just read a story and saw a new picture of Tim Lincecum that was posted yesterday. Apparently he is now bulked up (check out the picture!) and is planning to try to attempt a comeback. He’s 33 but he didn’t pitch at all last year, only pitched 38 1/3 innings in 2016, and 15 starts in 2015.

    If he looks good I think the Phillies offering him a 1 year contract would be a good fit. He wouldn’t command much money and could be an excellent deadline piece if he pitches well.

    Any thoughts? I might just be attracted to the big name, but I think it would be fun to see him pitch in Philly.

    • Romus

      December 20, 2017 03:41 PM

      rlh1004…that is a good idea.
      Of course, to avoid a 40 personnel decision, offer him a minor league contract with an invite to ST and see what he can do come March. I am sure other starting pitcher starved teams, ie Orioles for one, will be thinking the same thing. Let’s see what the boss has to say on your idea.

  9. Major Malfunction

    December 22, 2017 06:50 PM

    I started earlier that Santana is better suited for the 2 hole due to his high OBP rather than the 3rd spot. Nobody agreed with me.

    Kapler said yesterday that Santana will be batting 2nd. Great minds think alike ??

    • Andrew R.

      December 24, 2017 08:47 AM

      If Santana doesn’t bat 2, who does? Cesar-Santana make a nice 1-2 combo as both are switch-hitting, .370 obp guys.

      Don’t put too much into other people’s comments or “thumbs up/thumbs down.” Most commenters are clueless.

Next ArticleSad News From The Crashburn Alley Family