Mike Schmidt’s Casual Sexism

Phillies reliever Luis Garcia got into a pickle in the top of the eighth inning. He loaded the bases on a walk to Kevin Plawecki, a Dilson Herrera single to center field, and another walk to Ruben Tejada. Garcia was having trouble throwing strikes as usual, but his poor control may have also had something to do with slipping while delivering a pitch during the Plawecki at-bat. Garcia managed to get out of the inning when pinch-hitter Johnny Monell tapped a grounder back to Garcia, who threw to catcher Carlos Ruiz for one out. Ruiz then fired the ball to first base to complete the 1-2-3 double play and end the inning.

Upon return from a commerical break, the broadcast highlighted Garcia’s play to end the inning. Matt Stairs noted that Garcia’s throw home wasn’t great, which made the play closer than it should have been. Schmidt was going to say something but Stairs had to finish the segment first. Once that was done, Tom McCarthy prompted Schmidt to talk, which was a bad idea. Here’s what Schmidt said:

McCarthy: What were you going to say, Mike? That the throw was a bar of soap that Garcia threw to home plate?

Schmidt: Well, he did kind of throw it a little… I don’t know… are you allowed to say, a little bit…

Stairs: No.

Schmidt: …girlish, so to speak?

(Uncomfortable laughter)

Schmidt: Watch out.

McCarthy: He didn’t have a whole lot on it.

Schmidt: Yeah, uh…

McCarthy: Not a whole lot on it.

Schmidt: Kind of a bar of soap. Did someone just say that, Matt?Mets @ Phillies on May 9, 2015

(Ballcap tip to @james_in_to for grabbing the above clip.)

This is sexist for a very obvious reason, one which was apparent to all three members of the broadcast booth once the words left Schmidt’s mouth. In fact, Stairs seemed to know what Schmidt was going to say when he interjected “no” before Schmidt said “a little girlish”. You could cut the awkwardness in the booth with a knife.

Calling a weak throw “girlish” implies that femininity is weak. I need not list examples of strong women because women are allowed to be weak as well as strong. Weakness is not specific to any gender. This works in the opposite direction as well: when an athlete does something that exhibits strength, we’ll laud it as manly, as if strength is something only people who identify as men can display.

The comment coming from Schmidt isn’t surprising, as baseball — as with all professional sports — has deeply entrenched misogyny. Players who choose not to play through injuries are often chided by teammates, coaches, and pundits, often in terms referencing femininity in some fashion. (Think of a p-word that doubles as a name for a cat.) Women are often doubted about their dedication to their rooting interests simply by being women, referred to as “cleat chasers” (a form of slut-shaming) or challenged to prove their knowledge as if not knowing particular information invalidates their right to be a fan.

Schmidt’s comment wasn’t a mistake. He had plenty of time to select different words and still chose to use “girlish” because he has been saturated in misogyny his entire life. The implication of femininity as weak was never pointed out as wrong for him (likely until very recently) because when you play baseball in middle and high school, that’s part of the culture. And it stays as part of the culture through high school and the minor leagues, and continues into the major leagues. With no women around, it was never thought of to be challenged. Schmidt has never existed in a culture that has been anything but extremely male-dominated. Athletes’ casual misogyny is picked up from peers and authority figures the same way children pick up speech and behavioral mannerisms from their parents.

Frat-ish “bro” culture may fly in the isolated world of professional athletics when the cameras aren’t rolling and the microphones aren’t on, but it won’t fly in the broadcast booth. Hopefully sooner rather than later, it won’t fly in professional athletics anymore, either.

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81 comments

  1. The Logic User

    May 09, 2015 10:57 PM

    Why do we love looking for things to get offended by? Seriously, are we going to start writing 5 paragraph essays analyzing the words of a grandfather who’s offering his spontaneous thoughts on a baseball play? For Christ’s sake, let’s start realizing that some battles aren’t worth the effort.

    • msjib

      May 09, 2015 11:10 PM

      Have to agree. A non story. In other news, holy moly is Bryce Harper killing the ball. Like the slugger he was billed to be as a rookie

    • Gus

      May 10, 2015 01:58 AM

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      -28

      “Why do we love looking for things to get offended by?”

      I don’t know. Why did you comment on this post if you could’ve just said nothing? Seems like you’re getting offended over the idea of calling Schmidt on his bull.

    • Louis

      May 10, 2015 10:22 AM

      Your comment is a perfect example of the culture that Bill is talking about. Just because you don’t find something offensive (and I’m hoping you’re a woman, because otherwise you really have no right to say that feminism in sports is not a battle worth fighting) it does not mean that it is not a problem. If you don’t care about the issue, ignore the post, but it was fantastic of Bill to point this out.

      • Taylor

        May 10, 2015 09:09 PM

        Everybody has every right to say whatever they want about anything. A male’s opinion on feminism is no less valid than a woman’s just because they are male. You cannot know what they’ve been through, and YOU have no right to speak for them by claiming they don’t have the right perspective, or are too privileged, or whatever. Your perspective is incredibly duplicitous, creating a situation where there’s a 50/50 chance that if they disagree with you, you just ignore it by claiming that they have no right to state their viewpoint. It’s disgraceful, underhanded, prejudiced, stereotyping, and above all, ignorant.

      • bak425

        May 10, 2015 10:43 PM

        Fantastic of Bill to point out? That’s quite a reach. I can agree it was a dumb thing for Schmidt to say on a broadcast, but it’s not a big deal in my book. I’d wager that most women wouldn’t be offended, though for sure there are vocal exceptions. Plus, the column comes across as overly self-righteous IMO.

    • Ted F.

      May 11, 2015 10:07 AM

      That battle is wholly worth the effort. I don’t want to slam Schmidt, but we need to repeatedly make the point that this kind of expression is NOT acceptable. I teach at a girls’ high school and daily fight against the impact that this casual sexism has on young women.

  2. JD

    May 09, 2015 11:10 PM

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    -13

    When you’re a leftist everything is offensive. Especially when said by White Men.

      • CB

        May 10, 2015 01:11 AM

        Hey Bill aren’t you *also* a White Man?

      • Bill Baer

        May 10, 2015 01:14 AM

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        -22

        Yes. I acknowledge that I benefit from my privilege as a man and as a white person and harm others in the process. I include myself in my statement.

      • Keith

        May 10, 2015 07:39 AM

        You Bill are exhibiting what is known as reverse racism where a person of one race “hates on” a member of their own race. White privilege is something that is made up in people’s minds to try to make up what some of our ancestors did during the slave trade.

        To imply that just bc I’m a white make means that I think I’m better than everybody else is the most offensive thing in the world, that’s where racism stems (people who think they’re better than others just bc of race or some other class). I worked my rear end off to get where I am. I was never given any privilege just bc I’m white. My dad had to ride a bike back and forth to work everyday 45 min each way to provide for my family while my mom had to bus her way to work overnight shift as a waitress for 16 years. There are people of every race that think they are better than someone else just bc they are of that race. That’s racism, or in effect sexism. To say that somebody is better than someone at a specific task isn’t racism or sexism. I dislike anyone who’s given something without working for it, whether you’re white black Asian American Indian or any other race. I was never handed anything just bc I’m a white male.

      • Bip

        May 10, 2015 01:21 PM

        “I was never given any privilege just bc I’m white.”

        You have no way of knowing that, and a great incentive not to believe it if the opposite were the case.

      • Not Keith

        May 10, 2015 06:28 PM

        “You Bill are exhibiting what is known as reverse racism where a person of one race “hates on” a member of their own race. White privilege is something that is made up in people’s minds to try to make up what some of our ancestors did during the slave trade…

        To imply that just bc I’m a white make means that I think I’m better than everybody else is the most offensive thing in the world…

        I was never handed anything just bc I’m a white male.”

        Keith: Reverse racism isn’t a thing. People who say that don’t seem to believe racism exists anymore, therefore the efforts to offset racism offend them. Given that you think that white privelge is making up for slavery and not anything more recent suggests you don’t believe racism exists (and maybe hasn’t existed since slavery).

        Neither Bill nor anyone else equates white privelge to white males thinking they are better than anyone else, nor that they are “handed anything”. White privelge is the concept that you have the privelge to not face the discrimination others may face – you just may not realize how pervasive and damaging discrimination really is.

        Bill’s post is about sexism. His point is not that we should all think girls can throw as hard as boys, it’s that these casual, off-hand comments can be psychologically damaging. And coming full-circle, white privelge is the kind of mentally that leads to dismissing the concerns of people like Bill, because you may not have seen it/experienced it first-hand to know how that make someone feel inferior.

    • Dan

      May 09, 2015 11:25 PM

      How did this pass the moderator? What a ridiculous comment…

    • msjib

      May 09, 2015 11:24 PM

      Sexism is a major problem in today’s world and should be treated seriously. Has nothing to do it being white men. However something this trivial isn’t worth even mentioning. People need to be outraged by something though…

      • Bip

        May 10, 2015 01:24 PM

        The point isn’t that this comment is so terrible on its own. It indicates the underlying presence of sexist attitudes that actually are harmful. It wouldn’t have occurred to Schmidt to say this if he hadn’t absorbed the views that men are strong and women are weak, and those views do actually hurt people.

  3. anonymous

    May 09, 2015 11:19 PM

    Ever think Stairs was worried he was going to say something worse? Like something that rhymes with bussy?

  4. Phill fan

    May 09, 2015 11:22 PM

    It is borderline offensive. But studies suggest that girls often don’t throw as well as boys. Certainly doesn’t warrant an article. Are you allowed to say ‘throws like an old man’ or is that ageist ?

    • Bill Baer

      May 09, 2015 11:26 PM

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      Can you cite these studies, please? Links or other references to scholarly works only, not links to men’s rights blogs.

      If a majority of girls don’t throw as well as boys, it’s because of societal pressure on girls to engage in typically feminine activities. If we encouraged girls to play baseball (and other sports) from a young age well into adulthood, we would see the gap in athletic prowess close.

      • msjib

        May 09, 2015 11:34 PM

        Tldr; girls don’t throw as hard as boys bc of society. There are no girls ever that play softball/baseball and try to improve arm strength. Nice.

      • Phill fan

        May 09, 2015 11:40 PM

        Google it –lots of scholarly articles. No denying there is a gap. Lots of theories on why . Here’s one. Article: Sex differences in motor performance and motor learning in children and adolescents: an increasing male advantage in motor learning and consolidation phase gains.
        Shoshi Dorfberger, Esther Adi-Japha, Avi Karni

      • Bill Baer

        May 09, 2015 11:42 PM

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        “Google it” is not a reference to a scholarly article.

        You said girls don’t throw baseballs as well as boys. Where’s the study about that specifically? You didn’t mention nor did I ask about a general concept such as motor function.

        What you — and everyone else who cites this kind of stuff — are doing is hiding behind science in order to avoid dealing with your own misogyny. That’s cowardly.

      • Maestrobe

        May 10, 2015 12:03 AM

        No one is hiding behind anything, Bill. Go ahead– propose a clinical study to a university that involves trying to prove that women have the same athletic ability as men. You’d be laughed out of the room. It’s an established scientific fact that men have more muscle mass and have bodies better designed for athletics. Look at your local 5K results. It’s not women’s fault, but that’s the way it is. Would it be sexist to say that I (a man) can’t give birth to a baby?

      • Maestrobe

        May 10, 2015 12:10 AM

        I should clarify that I mean comparing the sexes generally– I don’t mean on an individual basis. There are many women who are better athletes than many men. But that doesn’t diminish the athletic advantages that men have generally./

      • msjib

        May 10, 2015 12:16 AM

        Look at this sexist pig (Maestrobe)! Using logic and what not…

      • Stephen Lawrence

        May 10, 2015 08:29 AM

        During communist rule, East German girls routinely received steroids just like the men, but never equalled men’s performances. Your comment about women being equal to men in strength flies in the face of everything known about sex and hormone differences there Bill. You cannot SJW yourself out of basic scientific facts, but maybe, just maybe, you can get a gig like the equally clueless Bob Ford or other idiotic philly.com writers. Does not matter what the truth is, but how you feel! Feeling offended yet?

      • Bip

        May 10, 2015 01:26 PM

        It’s completely irrelevant whether girls actually don’t throw as well as boys, or why. What matters is that it’s helpful to no one to use a feminine descriptor as a synonym for weak or incompetent.

      • Brian

        May 10, 2015 11:35 PM

        Bill,

        I agree with your larger points 100%. Schmidt’s comments were still, in my opinion, sexist, given the context, but it seems like throwing may be one of those anomalies that boys actually are biologically better at than girls.

        David Eptstein’s book, “The Sports Gene” was the first I heard of it, but here is an overview from the Washington Post: www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/throw-like-a-girl-with-some-practice-you-can-do-better/2012/09/10/9ffc8bc8-dc09-11e1-9974-5c975ae4810f_story.html

        and an abstract from the research: www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02701367.1986.10608088?journalCode=urqe20

        which concludes:

        “Thus, while the differences in most motor performance tasks between boys and girls prior to puberty have been attributed to environmental factors, some of the differences in throwing performance appears to reflect biological characteristics, even as early as 5 years of age.”

        Thanks for the good work.

    • Ted F.

      May 11, 2015 11:07 PM

      There are scientific studies showing a correlation between certain racial groups and poverty. Doesn’t excuse using a racial epithet to describe being poor.

      There are better ways to express yourself.

  5. Dan

    May 09, 2015 11:23 PM

    The conclusion isn’t fair. Don Darling, for example, played in that same era. He never says anything like that. It’s a thing sexists say, not something a person who grows up in that baseball culture of that time period says. Some people grow up.

  6. Phill fan

    May 09, 2015 11:53 PM

    Read up

    van den Tillaar, Roland, and Gertjan Ettema. 2004. “Effect of body size and gender in overarm throwing performance.” European Journal of Applied Physiology 91(4): 413-418. doi:10.1007/s00421-003-1019-8

    Dorfberger, Shoshi, Esther Adi-Japha, and Avi Karni. Forthcoming. “Sex differences in motor performance and motor learning in children and adolescents: An increasing male advantage in motor learning and consolidation phase gains.” Behavioural Brain Research. doi:10.1016/j.bbr.2008.10.033.

    Roberton, Mary Ann, and Jürgen Konczak. 2001. “Predicting Children’s Overarm Throw Ball Velocities from Their Developmental Levels in Throwing.” Research Quarterly for Exercise and Sport 72(2): 91-103.

    • Bill Baer

      May 09, 2015 11:58 PM

      You probably didn’t think I’d check those out.

      From van den Tillaar, Roland, and Gertjan Ettema. 2004. “Effect of body size and gender in overarm throwing performance.” European Journal of Applied Physiology 91(4): 413-418. doi:10.1007/s00421-003-1019-8

      Univariate analysis of variance between isometric strength and throwing velocity for men and women showed no significant effect of gender …

      From Roberton, Mary Ann, and Jürgen Konczak. 2001. “Predicting Children’s Overarm Throw Ball Velocities from Their Developmental Levels in Throwing.” Research Quarterly for Exercise and Sport 72(2): 91-103.

      … gender then explained no more than 2% additional variance.

      As for Dorfberger et. al., I didn’t ask about motor performance.

      • Phill fan

        May 10, 2015 12:15 AM

        I never offered opinion on nature vs nurture. I just said it has been studied for decades and a gap exists. By the way, overhand throwing is a motor task.

      • Bill Baer

        May 10, 2015 12:16 AM

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        -10

        Yeah, so is coloring in the lines. But we haven’t developed language around women’s inferior ability to use crayons, have we?

    • larry

      May 10, 2015 11:22 AM

      www.jssm.org/vol9/n2/8/v9n2-8text.php
      WOMEN AND MEN IN SPORT PERFORMANCE: THE GENDER GAP HAS NOT EVOLVED SINCE 1983
      this is Olympic sports so take it as you will
      KEY POINTS
      Sex is a major factor influencing best performances and world records.
      A stabilization of the gender gap in world records is observed after 1983, at a mean difference of 10.0% ± 2.94 between men and women for all events.
      The gender gap ranges from 5.5% (800-m freestyle, swimming) to 36.8% (weight lifting).
      The top ten performers’ analysis reveals a similar gender gap trend with a stabilization in 1982 at 11.7%
      Results suggest that women will not run, jump, swim or ride as fast as men.

  7. anonymous

    May 10, 2015 12:35 AM

    I have excellent penmanship. Often, when people see it and they say something very ridiculous like “I thought a girl wrote that not you.” Or “you write so neatly for a guy.”

    I have voiced my displeasure with such sexist statements to which I’m typically told it can only be sexist if it is putting down a woman and that this should be seen as a compliment.

    The irony is if Schmidt says Garcia threw that ball too lightly, no one is offended… However, it’s just as offensive because Garcia effectively did what was expected and his only faux pas was he didn’t meet Schmidt’s expectation in throwing the runner out quickly enough.

      • anonymous

        May 10, 2015 01:11 AM

        Sexism can be stereotyping merely based on gender. You’re giving more meaning to the word than it has.

        Are you saying someone who works in the mail room at a company can’t be racist or sexist simply because they have no power? That’s ridiculous.

      • Stephen Lawrence

        May 10, 2015 10:02 AM

        Gee whiz Billyboy! Why would the term “throws like a girl” ever develop? Put your thinking cap on there Bill… Could it have to do with something anatomical? Girls generally evolved not to throw across their bodies because something got in the way? You know Bill, those things that make women look wonderful in bathing suits, those beautiful anatomical accessories that give sustenance to infants? Those glands that the women who are attracted to low end beta male SJW types like yourself seldom possess? Don’t sink your pinkie toe in the science of sex differences there Bill. Women cannot be as strong as men because, well, for one week a month they have blood loss and all the cool things that happen with the menstrual cycle. Ever hear of someone loading up on female hormones to get stronger? Me neither. It’s evolution Bill! The white patriarchy gave themselves more anabolic steroids than they did to women! Speaking of evolution there Bill, why do something like 99 of the top 100 fastest 100 meter dash times belong to black males of west African descent? White boys don’t run as children? How does the SJW world explain that? Stick to baseball, otherwise the only people reading your site will be fellow travelers.

      • Bip

        May 10, 2015 01:29 PM

        Bruh, are you arguing that women don’t throw as well as men… cause of boobies?

  8. sibs

    May 10, 2015 12:48 AM

    Who cares? It’s true. I can throw harder than probably 99% of the girls in the world and if I trained I would be able to throw harder than 100% of them. It’s genetics.

  9. edwin

    May 10, 2015 04:26 AM

    Well if Mone Davis threw the ball then I would suspect he would be right.

  10. Phil Ease

    May 10, 2015 09:20 AM

    @ Keith

    You are wasting your breath. Bill doesn’t believe that hatred and discrimination against members of other races based solely on their racial differences is racism unless the perpetrator is white. Logic isn’t important.

    • James

      May 10, 2015 10:58 AM

      So two wrongs make a right?

      Perhaps as a society we are overly sensitive, but how about let’s just not be jerks? No one, especially a baseball commentator should say anything that might discourage a kid from playing baseball just because they are a girl. If they’re not as good, so be it, but don’t ever discourage anyone from trying.

      Fair enough?

      • Phil Ease

        May 10, 2015 11:02 AM

        When did I defend Schmidt’s statement? I didn’t.

      • James

        May 10, 2015 11:09 AM

        True, I was responding to the thread as a whole. I didn’t mean to single anyone out. Sorry about that.

      • The Logic User

        May 10, 2015 11:22 AM

        Dude, you are overanalyzing this. That’s my point. What young girl will hear Schmidt go “that was a girly throw” and genuinely use that as her reason why she won’t play baseball or softball? He’s not discouraging anyone; he’s describing a soft-ass throw to home plate from 10 feet away by a grown man.

      • Corinne Landrey

        May 10, 2015 11:35 AM

        This is not a comment in isolation. It is one example of the constant reference to femininity as inferior that girls and women face daily. That’s why it matters.

        (But I paraphrase Bill, since this is exactly the point he made in the well-written article above.)

      • James

        May 10, 2015 01:46 PM

        I have two neices who are both starting sports. If you encourage them they will participate in sports, even if they suck. If they think that they might not be doing great they mostly just stop wanting to play. Kids are very impressionable. Don’t underestimate that we all have an effect on them.

  11. Griffin

    May 10, 2015 10:56 AM

    Schmidt may have said something mildly offensive, but I don’t think it warrants a lecture on how horribly sexist he is. I think what he said was really more awkward than anything else. It would have been better for him not to say what he did, but no one would have been truly offended unless they were looking for something to be offended by. Also, why do we need scientific studies to say whether or not women or men can throw harder? Women are on average quite a bit smaller and have less muscle mass than men. Just look at the size, strength, and speed differences in male and female basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, or any Olympic sport. Physiological differences are not caused by sexism.

  12. Bill Baer

    May 10, 2015 11:03 AM

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    -19

    Wonder how many people in the comments here would be willing to print out their comments and show them to their mothers and/or wives/girlfriends?

    • The Logic User

      May 10, 2015 11:23 AM

      Are you gonna print yours out about how only white people can be racist and how men can’t be discriminated against, then show them to your mother with a beaming smile on your face as she sticks them on the refrigerator?

    • Maestrobe

      May 10, 2015 02:37 PM

      I just showed my girlfriend my comments. Her view is that your paternalistic attitude is sexist and that your refusal to admit that men have more athletic advantages then women diminishes the athletic accomplishments of women. Are women supposed to feel inferior because they can’t make the MLB as a pitcher?

  13. dan

    May 10, 2015 11:36 AM

    long time reader, first time commenter. as a father of a 4 year old girl who watches baseball, I’d prefer if she didn’t have to hear things like that. I know there’s nuance since men are generally physically stronger, but I doubt my 4 year old would be able to pick up on that nuance, she’d likely take it to mean girls are inferior. before having a girl I probably would have thought that this debate is overblown, but now that I see all the messages sent my daughter’s way everyday, I’m a little more aware. just figured I’d share my perspective. Thanks

  14. Romus

    May 10, 2015 01:19 PM

    Hey….if I remember correctly, my ex had a pretty decent overarm throw!

  15. Bip

    May 10, 2015 01:36 PM

    A lot of people here are denying the ideas of male privilege and white privilege. I’m certainly not going to explain exactly what those are, how we know they exist, and that they are not in the least rebutted by “but I’m a white male and my life is hard.” That has been done better than I possibly could elsewhere.

    What I will point out is that most people seem to be address this issue as if the consequences of Schmidt’s statement is limited to the offense it causes. This itself is a huge indicator of privilege. If someone says or does something racist or sexist, and people complain about it, and you think the only issue at hand is that those people were ‘offended’, then it’s pretty safe to say you’ve never been the victim of sexism or racism. Those things do have serious consequences. If you’re a woman who has experiences the way that women’s athletics are not taken seriously, and how you were discouraged from playing sports because it’s “unfeminine”, I imagine you’ll see Schmidt’s comment differently that most of the commenters here.

    • Maestrobe

      May 10, 2015 04:19 PM

      The problem is that Bill went beyond the points you make by taking an absurd position re: the athletic equality of men and women, absent societal influence. He undercut his own arguments with respect to whether MS’s comment was appropriate. You can’t call everyone who disagrees with an extreme, nonsensical position sexist just because the position is shrouded in good intentions.

      • Bip

        May 10, 2015 06:30 PM

        that whole argument, on both sides, is irrelevant to the original point anyway, so that’s not so much what I’m addressing.

  16. Dmm

    May 10, 2015 06:14 PM

    Look, I’m a girl, and I am “offended” that you think it is “offensive” that Schmidt referred to that as “girlish”.

    I’m a girl and yes, it appeared as though Garcia threw the ball just as I would have thrown it. I’m just a regular girl, not really athletic, however I have female friends and relatives who are female and athletic (two of whom made All-State, Softball) and they worked damn hard (just as a guy would have to) to BE as good as they are, athletically. But people like you will soon be protesting that there are seperate leagues for guys and girls, despite them having different physical characteristics.

    Uh-oh, I just typed that guys and girls have different physical characteristics!! Do I need to apologize to the world for that statement, and repent!!!?

    Whether he had bad footing, or it slipped — it does not MATTER. It DID look GIRLISH. Why anyone would be “offended” by this is yet another sick and pathetic illustration of how the Mediots and politicians have succedded in dividing people more and more for attention and ratings — and HITS on websites. PATHETIC.

    Newsflash: Girls and boys are not identical. There is male, and there is female. You political idiots calling everything “sexist” is puke-indicing and an insult to BOTH sexes.

    People like you are THE reason a guy gets a dirty look when he holds the door open for a lot of us. And then we can complain a guy is a neanderthal when he does not.
    Signed,
    A GIRL

    • Bip

      May 10, 2015 06:28 PM

      “I have female friends and relatives who are female and athletic (two of whom made All-State, Softball) and they worked damn hard (just as a guy would have to) to BE as good as they are, athletically”

      “It DID look GIRLISH”

      Does not compute.

      • dmm

        May 10, 2015 07:41 PM

        <<<>>>

        To the people complaining about Schmidt, hope you don’t have to spend much time in the Corporate workplace!!

        I will be the first to admit, without shame, that my guy has much bigger muscles than I do. He can lift MUCH heavier things than I can, and also hit a golf ball quite a few more yards than I can ever dream of hitting one. So I reckon that makes me… reverse-sexist? Huh?

        I work in a union shop and, for the first few months,, the guys with senority used to stand RIGHT THERE and get a kick out of watching me struggle. I mumbled ” lazy *&%$@! creeps” more times than I could count (shocked I wasn’t canned for all the profanity.) After a few months, they started acting “normal” because they realized that *I* knew that their muscles were at least 2Xs the size of mine.

        People whining about crap like an innocuous statement on a sports broadcast is most likely the reason the REAL issues of today are not addressed.

        Try being the only female brunette in an all-blonde office (or vice-versa), or skinnier, or heavier, or not being all caught up in the gossip mill. And don’t even TRY being young and single in an all-married office with all fellow females. See how the females treat a fellow female!! And our CEO and VP were female! Couldn’t pay me enough to go back into that environment!! Give me a 50-50 male/female ratio any day.

        And then there is AGE discrimination. I know MANY people, male and female, gay and straight, ALL different races, you-name-it, who have been affected by it. Don’t hear anybody moaning on TV about this issue because they’re too busy being offended by whatever the TV & Politicians are telling them to be offended by, and just whose ratings and votes are they bucking for the most?
        It’s all about appealing to certain DEMOGRAPHICS. Turn off the TV and/or put down the damn cellphones for half a minute and look around you.

      • dmm

        May 10, 2015 10:25 PM

        Thank You, Romas,
        Good points!

        To Bip: “Does Not Compute”

        Of course, as I didn’t proofread; carelessly omitting the main sentence:

        The female athlete friends I mentioned wouldn’t take too kind to me referring to them as “Manly” or “boyish”.

        Apparently, being labeled as “girlish” is an insult to the female gender now, too (JB). I seriously doubt that Mo´ne Davis, her relatives, friends, etc. would prefer her being described as “Boyish”.

      • Bip

        May 10, 2015 10:27 PM

        dmm, you raise some legitimate issues in this post. Age discrimination is certainly serious and real. It just doesn’t invalidate other issues. Schmidt’s comment is not so terrible by itself, but it does help perpetuate an existing issue, which is women being dismissed and weak and incompetent, and also being discouraged from sports and other physical activity, which impacts them in far more ways than just being less physically developed.

        I recognize that men are, all other things equal, physically stronger than women on average. But that is very, very different from saying that women are “weak” and men are “strong”. Women are not weak, and the cultural tendency to equate the two, which goes far beyond one comment by one broadcaster, is very harmful.

    • Romus

      May 10, 2015 07:00 PM

      Dmm…you go gal!
      Finally, glad to hear from the side that really matters.

      • JB

        May 10, 2015 07:06 PM

        Good to know Corinne isn’t a woman, doesn’t matter.

      • Romus

        May 10, 2015 07:45 PM

        Mr Baer,
        With all due respects, I take offense referring to me as middle-aged….I am a senior citizen. I worked hard for the gray.
        And I read Ms Landrey’s comments, and she has every right to post what her beliefs are on the subject. She is entitled as an American.
        But I have to come to respect the first amendment rights of people….for I would be deem a hypocrite if I didn’t, after spending 20 years in the mil defending those rights.

      • Bill Baer

        May 10, 2015 07:05 PM

        -
        -15

        Corinne posted upthread and was summarily ignored because she didn’t line up with the viewpoints of middle-aged white dudes.

      • dmm

        May 10, 2015 11:11 PM

        Listen, Bip: Aside from that office I mentioned, have been fortunate to work in some large and VERY diversified workplaces; With various ages, races, alongside co-workers from various backgrounds and parts of the city, as well as suburbs. Went to an inner-city high school where our girls’ Varsity and Jr. Varsity teams had just as much support from the Faculty as the guys did (I know, I went to the games.) There were PA Announcements, the school newspaper, yearbook, etc.
        Oh the girls didn’t have cheerleaders = only difference. Is that “sexist”, too?

        Perhaps you really need to cut down on Talk Radio and/or TV time.
        Guess what? If/when a guy helps me out, I actually THANK him. I don’t cop a “get the hell away from me, you chauvinist sexist pig!” attitude (as some I know would), therefore we get along juuuuuust fine. And I have their backs, too. The *majority* don’t go all “Macho”, ashamed at the thought of a girl having their back. When we are fortunate to be surrounded by mature people, that’s how it goes.
        They can also bust my chops, and I can bust theirs, and laugh about it. It’s how you TREAT PEOPLE. There are schmucks everywhere, so I just ignore/avoid/even sometimes just laugh at them and their silliness. I have found that people who are nasty are even more nasty to those CLOSEST to them. They are insecure people. See how they treat their kids, husbands, wives.

        We have come a LONG way. Why do people try to “undo” it with this petty shit? This isn’t Kindergarten anymore.

        I can’t speak for Mike Schmidt, as I’m not him, but it was more than obvious (to me) that he meant NOTHING “derogatory” by it — which is why I believed he continued with the thought. There WAS nothing wrong with it!! He didn’t call the PLAYER “Girlish”, he called the THROW “girlish”! Because it WAS, just like one of my OWN would be. (I tried out for Varsity softball, but there were too many girls more gifted at it than I was, so guess what? Coach didn’t pick me! THANKFULLY!!!)
        But I didn’t sit around and curse everybody, or sue the Coach! Went to the games and rooted my friends instead. What a concept!!

        EVERYBODY has to walk on eggshells anymore when it comes to saying ANYthing, and Schmidt is certainly no exception. This city found enough fault with the guy when he played! Yeah, I know, wonderful, exciting Lenny Dykstra was sooooo much more “fun” to watch. Should Nails in-his-prime utter the SAME thing as Schmidt did the other night (or something worse), everybody laughs!! Phans I know personally still PRAISE Chase for “World Effing Champs!” I’ll never figure this city out…

    • JB

      May 10, 2015 07:05 PM

      When Mone Davis throws a ball, would you refer to the motion as “girlish” or claim that she throws the ball like a girl? Nah, because there’s a connotation when Schmidt and others say that someone throws the ball “like a girl.” That connotation is weakness, and if you don’t see the problem with that as a woman, I feel sorry for you.

      • dmm

        May 10, 2015 07:52 PM

        WTH are you smoking? Mone Davis IS a girl @ headsmack @

      • Bip

        May 10, 2015 10:20 PM

        so, dmm, would you say “Mone Davis throws like a girl”? Does that ring right in your head? One of the best pitchers for her age group in the country “throws like a girl”? It’s literally true, but is it true in the sense people mean when they say it?

        Was Schmidt implying that the ball was thrown like Mone Davis would?

  17. dmm

    May 11, 2015 01:15 AM

    I submitted answers to Bip earlier but have apparently been flagged.
    Far extreme “Right” vs. far extreme “Left” is what sells. Gotta get the people all pizzed & “excited” to keep ratings up!!
    Middle-ground with no “Us Vs. Them” political agenda to push = ZZZzzzzzz.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled program….
    Oh, P.S. My sister told me I “got fat” and that my hair lookes like “Broom Hilda”. Anyone know a good lawyer?

  18. anonymous

    May 11, 2015 02:09 AM

    Schmidt made about 5-10 offensive comments today. He’s mostly guilty of being inarticulate and having a terrible sense of humor.

    He started they day off by saying Curtis Granderson’s pink cleats would have raised a lot of questions in his playing days.

    There were more examples. It’s a little cringeworthy.

  19. Facts

    May 11, 2015 02:56 AM

    “Throwing like a girl” is merely descriptive of mechanics/throwing motion characterized by a pronounced pushing motion. It does not necessarily mean weak or bad, as in the term “girl” is used as a synonym for weak or bad. For non-athletes, I can see how this is considered sexist, as they have no concept of technical atheletics.

    Despite our politics, the fact of the matter is that women are generally physically weaker than men – that’s a fact. Women also generally use a pushing motion when throwing – that’s a fact. Doesn’t mean women can’t be taught to improve their throwing mechanics, lift weights and take steroids. I’d give Schmidt a pass if all you got is this one phrase – it’s descriptive of mechanics, not the value of women.

  20. Major Malfunction

    May 11, 2015 08:50 AM

    Did you know Scotch tape got its name because the engineer at 3M who invented it thought it was “cheap”, just like Scottish people? True story.

    Where’s a 12 part piece on how we should all take a deep look into our souls and that anybody not stapling wrapping paper to gifts is just feeding racism and proliferating awful stereotypes? I demand justice!!

  21. Boo-urns

    May 12, 2015 02:36 PM

    The problem here isn’t that Schmidt is intentionally sexist. (He might be, I wouldn’t know, but that’s neither here nor there.) Rather, that using a reference to gender to describe a weak throw, rather than simply (and more accurately) saying that it was a weak throw, stereotypes and demeans women by inferring that something that is weak or under-performing is somehow a female trait. Yes, it does send the wrong message to women, and to men as well; we need to raise our young men to respect women and not to think of them as inferior, weak, etc.

    There is no reason to call it a “girly throw” when more accurate, non-offensive / non-demeaning / non-stereotyping terms exist.

    • Ryan

      May 13, 2015 01:01 PM

      The job title of “color commentator” should then be changed to “politically correct hyper-sensitive commentator”.

      Not saying that Mike’s use of “girlish” to describe the throw was correct, but putting a guy in the booth who will never say anything even remotely edgy would make watching a game even more boring to the young fans who’s attention spans already can’t last for a full game. I’m not saying that I want Howard Stern to call the games, but a guy calling a throw girlish hardly seems worth all the fuss.

  22. Jeff T

    May 14, 2015 01:21 PM

    I was originally writing a reply that was negative of Bill’s post. But then as a was writing my brain got to working and I made some connections. I think BOTH sides of this argument are being overly simplistic.
    Bill, Thought Experiment: The Phillies use their first round draft on a female baseball player. What is your honest first reaction? I think it’s a fact that IN GENERAL women are not as physically athletic as men. I will also concede that many women could throw harder and run faster than myself. If women could compete at the same level as men, there would be no need for the WNBA, softball, or Women’s Olympic events.
    Having said that, I also have a niece who was born super premature. She is my world. She also has a 40 IQ. She is labeled as “Severely Mentally Retarded” (the psychiatrist’s actual label). While there is no denying that she is a 10 year old who needs help from her 3 year old sister, I would not like someone to look at a poorly written essay or a math miscalculation and say that it was “retarded.” Just because I acknowledge that my niece is what she is, doesn’t mean other people get to appropriate to disparage other people.
    The problem I originally had with Bill’s post was that if seemed like he was against admitting that girls (in general) couldn’t throw as well as boys. But, if his intent was why do we as a society have to call out women for their weaknesses, then I see his point.

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