Have a .gif of Jarred Cosart’s Curve

In case you missed last night’s Futures Game, Phils prospect Jarred Cosart flashed some excellent stuff in his one inning of work. To me, no single pitch was more impressive than this curveball, thrown 0-2 with serious bite.

Cosart

Cosart is still young and a work in progress, but it’s pretty easy to see why he’s generating more and more buzz these days. A solid appearance like this on national TV sure didn’t hurt, either.

Many thanks to Tony Verduci, of TheFightins dot com fame, for his work in capping the .gif above.

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40 comments

  1. MplsPhilsFan

    July 11, 2011 11:24 AM

    Coasrt, Valle, Brown, Singleton, the Phillies have a ton of talent coming up through the minors. I would anticipate the starting 5 of the Phillies in 2013 to be Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Worley and Cosart.

    The Phillies period of dominance could extend for quite a while, even with all of the talent the Braves will have coming in the next few years

  2. Andy

    July 11, 2011 11:46 AM

    Cosart’s delivery still scares me.

  3. Dan

    July 11, 2011 01:11 PM

    Bill, you forgot the best part: That was against a Mets prospect. We’re already grooming him to dominant our division rivals (the prospect he popped up was a Dodgers prospect, and the other prospect he struck out with his Change was a BoSox prospect, by the way).

    Mpls, are you saying Cosart starts 2013 with the club? And that he’s the fifth (behind Worley)? I doubt it. He’s more likely to get his call-up in September 2013, and as much as I love Worley, Cosart has much better stuff.

    Andy, his mechanics used to be much worse. Given more time, I’m sure the Phils will get his delivery looking silky smooth.

  4. flyerscup

    July 11, 2011 03:16 PM

    They need to get him and Halladay hanging out asap. Lee being around has done wonders for Cole.

  5. MplsPhilsFan

    July 11, 2011 03:17 PM

    Dan, I do not anticipate Cosart starts 2013 with the club, but expect him to be a June call up. Agreed, Cosart has a much higher ceiling than Worley, but I think Worley is a serviceable starter with a low price tag. Exactly the combination the Phils need. As for who is 4th and who is 5th, I do not see that as mattering much, as long as both players are starting and not relieving

    Andy, others have commented on Cosart’s delivery according to keith law, he cuts himself off a bit and has a motion that brings his arm across his body. I am no expert on mechanics, but I believe that is a mechanical flaw that can be fixed

    I do wonder if Brody Colvin might be used as trade bait to acquire another relief pitcher. Would a package headlined by Colvin be enough to acquire Heath Bell?

  6. Jim Z.

    July 11, 2011 06:05 PM

    Do the Phillies have any prospects that aren’t pitchers?

  7. dlhunter

    July 11, 2011 06:10 PM

    MplsPhilsFan- They’d want much more than Mr. Colvin. Think Singleton. And then add a couple names you’d dearly miss. IMHO, closers are an overrated trade commodity as is — unless you can fleece Ed Wade.

  8. Phillie697

    July 11, 2011 07:08 PM

    This isn’t the 2002, no one is going to trade a grade A prospect and two other players you’ve heard of before for a closer for two months. Teams value prospects a lot more than they did 10 years ago.

    @flyerscup, maybe you want to pay more attention… Cole has been good even before Lee showed up.

  9. Mratfink

    July 11, 2011 10:18 PM

    Jim Z,
    the phils have a number of non-pitcher prospects. Their best position player prospect before the season was Singleton a hi-A 1B-LF, his numbers this year arent as good as last year but there are two important factors to consider. first they changed his swing at the beginning of the season and he had to scrap the change and since he went back he has been in line with his previous minor league stats. Second, Hi-A is a pitcher’s league because the parks are big, so his power is depressed. He’s legit and very very good.
    Beyond Singleton we have a number of intriguing bats but none with the same high potential that Singleton and our top pitching prospects have.

  10. Tim M

    July 12, 2011 12:50 AM

    The bottom dropped out of his curve…pretty filthy.

    How do we look prospect-wise at 3B? Do we go out of our organization for a Polanco replacement?

  11. COAL HAMLETS

    July 12, 2011 06:51 AM

    Cosart has to be the most exciting pitching prospect to watch we’ve had since Hamels, with no disrespect to Drabek etc.

    His stuff is electric with a huge upside, and he’s certainly a ton of fun to watch.

    As far as what the Phillies will do for 3B after Polanco’s gone… I would guess the Phillies would either trade for one or maybe pick up a free agent 3B if there are any decent ones available. Ideally the Phillies would find some way of getting Zimmerman or Wright, unless one of our 3B prospects absolutely catches fire, which is certainly possible with all the Middle Infielders the Phillies drafted this year.

  12. Steve

    July 12, 2011 07:28 AM

    Bill – This brings up the inevitable question. Do you think the Phils would move Cosart for Pence? Do you think Pence would be worth that move? I keep hearing Pence is an obvious target for the Phils, which is true. He’s also still a year and half away from free agency, so we’d have him again next year. Is he worth Cosart? That’s a good debate.

  13. clwtom

    July 12, 2011 11:18 AM

    If noone has noticed the Phils have 2 first basemen at Reading Rizzotti and Cody Overbeck who have 35 homers between them. Im sure that they are both playing, one as the DH and the other at first base, but unless one becomes an outfielder there just isn’t room for both or either of them. Let us not forget that the still have a first baseman that has a five year contract. Oh and by the way they have a couple more good first basemen at other minor league levels.

  14. Dan

    July 12, 2011 11:59 AM

    clwtom, Rizzotti is all bat, no glove. Ideally, he ends up as a DH, because he’s a legit hitter. Overbeck was a 3B, now moved to 1B. He’s much less valuable to us at 1B. I can easily see us moving both of them, if anyone has interest in them. 1B is, not unlike the major leagues, the deepest position in terms of prospects.

    Steve, I personally think Cosart is an untouchable at this point. If we make a move for Pence, it will probably involve Colvin and Singleton.

    Tim M, the only fringe-prospect we had at 3B was Overbeck, but he’s been moved to 1B (I don’t know if that’s permanent). He left a lot to be desired defensively, and was slightly above average offensively. We drafted a 21 year old 3B this year, though, that projects as average defensively with possibly a .270+ average and 20-25 HR power, so we’ll see how fast he progresses. It’s more likely we pick up another FA, though.

  15. COAL HAMLETS

    July 12, 2011 12:29 PM

    I would NOT trade ANY of Cosart,Colvin, or Singleton for ANYBODY who is not close in value to a guy like Roy Halladay… since top notch prospects should ONLY be traded for top notch players, and ONLY if they are not rentals.

    Quite frankly, Pence is not even worth Cosart by himself… he’s a good player I would love to have for the right price, but I do NOT trade a guy like Cosart unless were getting somebody like freaking Justin Verlander,Jose Bautista,or Justin Upton in return.

  16. That guyy

    July 12, 2011 12:43 PM

    Cosart is the prospect I’m most excited about but everytime I read something about him they bring up his mechanics. Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with his mechanics?

  17. MplsPhilsFan

    July 12, 2011 01:43 PM

    dlhunter, I specifically said that Colvin would headline a deal for Bell. In no way did I think that he alone was sufficient to obtain Heath Bell, considering Bell is a Type A free agent and would be worth 2 first round draft picks as compensation. Some combination of Colvin, Trevor May, and Aaron Altherr might be sufficient, though.

    I cannot imagine Cosart would not be moved for Pence, especially because Pence has a $6 million base salary this year and the Phils cannot take on much payroll (supposedly). Plus, they are feeling burned by the Oswalt trade, which was more like a date in a max security prison

    Dan, both Cosart and Singleton are untouchable, as is Valle. The rest are probably negotiable with the possible exception of Freddy galvis, who is the onyl possible major league middle infielder in the minors, and that only if his improved bat this year is not a mirage.

    Overbeck was shifted to left, in the hope that his bat would translate into a quicker transition into the majors. Jury is still out on whether he can be a contributor.

    That guyy, from what I heard Cosart’s motion brings his arm too far across his body, placing additional strain on the shoulder and elbow. I may be completely wrong on this one, and woould refer you to Will Carrol or Keith Law who migth be able to better explain the mechanical flaw and future implications

  18. COAL HAMLETS

    July 12, 2011 02:00 PM

    If Pence costs us Cosart, then I say forget it!

    Like I said, Pence would be a nice player to have…but I would not give up any of our top 5 prospects for him. He’s somewhat over-rated, but he’s still a very good player if he can be had for some 2nd tier prospects.

  19. Andy

    July 12, 2011 02:09 PM

    @That guyy – Cosart has the dreaded “inverted W” pitching delivery, which some people think is the reason why Prior, Strasberg, etc. all had arm problems. It’s still unproven, but the biomechanics suggest more stress is put on the elbow and shoulder.

  20. LTG

    July 12, 2011 05:35 PM

    For those of you who, like me, did not know what is meant by “inverted W” before reading Andy’s post, here is an good explanation of the type of motion to which it refers and why it can be detrimental to a pitcher’s career: www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/RethinkingPitching/Essays/DeathToTheInvertedW.html

    Thanks, Andy, for pointing this mechanical flaw out. I was not previously able to imagine how these slight differences could lead to large differences in success and endurance.

  21. Jon

    July 12, 2011 05:45 PM

    Isn’t an Inverted W just an M?

    Never use a big word when a diminutive alternative would suffice.

  22. LTG

    July 12, 2011 07:17 PM

    “Inverted W” is a tag, not invented by Andy, and I think it is more appropriate because M’s usually do not have legs that angle out but rather are perpendicular to the line on which it is written. (For evidence, consult the font used here.) If you read the article you’ll discover numerous tags for the motion.

  23. That guyy

    July 12, 2011 08:16 PM

    Thanks guys.

  24. That guyy

    July 12, 2011 08:29 PM

    That article makes a lot of sense of why some promising careers are shortened.

  25. sean

    July 12, 2011 10:09 PM

    invert W doesn’t mean much. plenty of pitcher are fine with it and plenty aren’t fine with it. it doesn’t mean you will get injured any more then any other delivery.

    for me it seems pitchers that have a sudden increase in velocity as they age have a higher chance of blowing out, since they can’t handle or aren’t used to it. strasburg onnly started throwing as fast as he did once he got to college for instance.

  26. Phillile697

    July 12, 2011 10:16 PM

    I have to laugh everytime Ham Sandwich over there suggest that Cosart should only be traded for Verlander, Bautista and the like. The Tigers and Blue Jays wouldn’t trade them even if we offered for either one Ryan Howard (and his ridiculous contract) AND Chase Utley, let along Cosart.

  27. COAL HAMLETS

    July 12, 2011 11:11 PM

    I never said that Verlander or Bautista would be traded(they won’t be), i’m just sayng that I wouldn’t trade top prospects for a ‘just OK’ player like Pence. There are very few if any realistic trades I would make that would involve the top prospects, especially as this Phillies team continues to age. Amaro can’t keep trading away the best prospects, when we are seriously going to need some of these guys in a few years.

  28. LTG

    July 12, 2011 11:29 PM

    Sean,

    Did you read the article and do you have some sort of expertise (medical, e.g.) that supports your claim? The article provides a quote from a purported surgeon on why the inverted W would be a problem. I admit that there is no way to verify that a surgeon wrote it and that the author of the site does not have special expertise in physiology. But it seems that people in MLB are taking the inverted W explanation of some pitching injuries seriously. Presumably they have reason to do that. For example, perhaps they’ve done limited historical studies that support the conclusion that pitchers who throw with an inverted W are more likely to have serious elbow and shoulder injuries.

    At any rate, the article provides some evidence that, and some explanation for why, the inverted W would increase the likelihood of serious injury. Your assertion provides neither evidence nor explanation why it wouldn’t. But, hey, we should just believe you, right?

    I don’t mean to say that the inverted W hypothesis is certainly true. I only mean to say that your mere assertion that it isn’t adds nothing to the discussion. Feel free to provide the counter-argument to the hypothesis anytime.

  29. Andy

    July 13, 2011 07:23 AM

    Like I said, the inverted W is all theory — it’s hard to prove why someone actually gets injured. But there’s some cogent logic behind it as well as some anecdotal evidence (i.e. Strasberg, Prior, etc.). However, there have been many that have had the same delivery without injury problems.

    @Sean, your argument, which I’ve heard Keith Law also state, also makes a lot of sense. A sudden increase in velocity is obviously going to strain the ligaments, as they haven’t had the time to properly adjust to the increase in stress.

    Let’s all hope that Cosart stays healthy and matures into the front-of-the-rotation pitcher that we all see him becoming.

  30. Scott G

    July 13, 2011 09:48 AM

    Did you do away with the “Recent Comments” and “Recent Posts” link section?

  31. Phillie697

    July 13, 2011 02:36 PM

    All this injury talk is exactly why people don’t value top pitching prospects THAT highly. Cosart potentially has a bright future, but at this point he’s about as valuable as a Hunter Pence. Let’s not get too overly excited about him as if he’s the second coming of Hamels. One Hamels is lucky enough, and how many top pitching prospects did we go through to have just the one? Let see… Gavin Floyd, Brandon Duckworth, Brett Meyers, Carlos Carrasco, Kyle Drabek… None of them has or will turn out to be as valuable as Hamels, yet all of them have been dubbed “future Cy Young winner” at one time or another. Let’s not get too crazy over Cosart.

  32. Paul Boye

    July 13, 2011 08:03 PM

    I’m not sure anyone in the next 10-20 years will come through the system as destructively as Hamels did. Cosart certainly hasn’t shown that type of ascension, and I don’t believe anyone would confuse the two.

  33. Scott G

    July 13, 2011 09:46 PM

    Paul,

    I’m definitely hoping into the middle of this conversation, so forgive me if this has been addressed. Cole Hamels is the man. He’ll probably be the best home grown pitcher for a long time. However, maybe his progress through the system was aided by the fact that the Phillies pitchers in 2004 were Kevin Millwood, Brett Myers, Randy Wolf, Vicente Padilla, and Eric Milton.

    Cosart is in no hurry while Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Oswalt are here.

    I have no idea how good Cosart is. The only time I’ve seen him pitch is in the above .gif.

  34. JB Allen

    July 14, 2011 08:18 AM

    I’m confused. Cosart is a definite prospect, but aren’t Crashburn Alley readers typically a little more sabermetrically inclined than this? He’s a pitching prospect with decent-but-not-great minor league stats who has everyone gushing over an anecdotal bit of information. A very impressive anecdotal bit of information, but still. If the Phillies could get Pence for him, I don’t think that would be a bad idea at all. And I say this as someone who thinks Amaro is way too infatuated with grizzled veterans.

  35. Bill Baer

    July 14, 2011 08:22 AM

    I haven’t chimed in yet on this, but I’m of the TINSTAAPP party. I certainly wouldn’t want to dampen any enthusiasm, but I think JB Allen’s reality check is spot-on — let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

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