Chase Utley: Public Enemy Number One

by Bill Baer on October 26th, 2010
Posted in MLB, Philadelphia Phillies, Sabermetrics | Print | 58 Comments »

For a long time, Chase Utley has been beloved in Philadelphia. Although he’s not much of a talker, he’s had quite a few iconic moments as a Phillie for what he’s said and done, baseball talent aside. Remember the 2008 All-Star Game where he was booed by New York fans? Or his great speech in Citizens Bank Park during the team’s victory parade? Utley may have been Harry Kalas’ favorite player this side of Michael Jack Schmidt, once exclaiming “Chase Utley, you are the man!” when he scored on an infield single. How about Utley’s historically great defensive play to nail Jason Bartlett at home plate in Game 5 of the ’08 World Series? Or his flipping the ball back with understated attitude, causing the benches to clear, after Jonathan Sanchez hit him with a pitch in Game Six of the NLCS?

Let Mac from the TV show It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia sum up the love for Utley:

Unfortunately, the Phillies lost the NLCS to the Giants in six games, thanks in part to Utley’s .182/.333/.227 triple-slash line and multiple defensive miscues. Combine that with a career-low offensive output in the regular season which included a thumb injury that caused him to spend 49 days on the disabled list, the love for Utley is starting to dissipate.

The recency effect and Utley’s understated personality are causing people to forget about his elite production both offensively and defensively. Earlier this year, I made the case that Utley is, by far, the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Even factoring in his poor defensive showing in the post-season, I stand by that.

The various Sabermetric defensive stats tend to disagree with each other much more frequently than their offensive counterparts, but the one thing they do agree on is that Utley is an elite defender. Over the last three seasons, no one has a higher UZR/150 than Utley. He is second to Mark Ellis in Revised Zone Rating (RZR) .862 to .842, has made the most Out Of Zone plays (OOZ) with 137, and racked up the most Defensive Runs Saved (DRS), nearly doubling the second-highest total of Ellis, 60 to 33.

Offensively, over the past three seasons, Utley has the highest wOBA at .391, 18 points ahead of runner-up Dustin Pedroia. He has the third-highest speed score at 6.0, trailing Ian Kinsler and Brian Roberts.

Despite Utley’s place atop baseball as the best second baseman and arguably the second-most valuable player at any position, he is being bandied about in trade rumors. His down year in 2010 is being used as evidence of decline, the small sample of at-bats and defensive opportunities in the post-season as reason for the Phillies to shake things up, change the culture, and get back to the organization’s winning ways.

Leading the charge is radio host Mike Missanelli of 97.5 The Fanatic. You may remember Missanelli from his shouting match with Keith Law when the two were debating the merits of the large Ryan Howard contract extension. While I’m confident that he was trying to drive up the station’s listenership based on his previous actions and his reputation, his words do have a ripple effect in the baseball community. Some people actually view him as an authority in baseball analysis and will take his thoughts seriously.

I want to stifle the “trade Utley” crowd before it ever becomes a crowd. I’m overreacting to one madman, but I’ve seen the way irrational sentiment can sweep through Philadelphia and it is not pretty. It is ludicrous to consider trading Utley for a multitude of reasons, just as it was ludicrous to hand Howard a $125 million contract extension. As mentioned above, Utley is a rare breed of player, arguably the second-most valuable player in baseball. If Utley’s gone, who replaces him? Do you move Placido Polanco to second and sign a free agent third baseman like Adrian Beltre?

The Phillies have Utley under contract for three more years at $15 million apiece, decidedly below market value. Polanco will be in town for two more seasons and possibly a third if the Phillies are content with his level of production at the time. How much would it take to sign Beltre? Multiple years, and considering the type of season he had with the Boston Red Sox in 2010, the Phillies should probably expect to shell out upwards of $30 million. And that’s assuming that the Phillies can sign Beltre — they’ll have competition for the third baseman’s services, of course.

Additionally, the Phillies would be buying high on Beltre and selling low on Utley, two things that should be avoided in any walk of life. It would make more sense to trade Utley after, say, his 2008 season when he had a .915 OPS and had won a World Series. While Utley’s actual value may not have been drastically different, the perception of his value would have been. How much value would the Phillies be able to get out of Utley following a career-worst offensive season in which he was injured and ineffective in the post-season? And from whom could they get that value? While any team should jump at the chance to acquire Utley, the remaining $45 million on his contract is a burden on some teams, thus reducing his trade value even further. Other teams already have second basemen, and other teams consider themselves too out-of-the-picture to jump in the conversation.

Are the Phillies going to trade Utley? No. Absolutely not. But this wasn’t a response to the possibility of the trade, but to the environment that allows these ridiculous rumors to propagate. Philadelphia has run some athletes out of town and scared off potential free agent signings (Yankees fans may prevent a Cliff Lee signing, by the way). During the depression circa 1995-2002, that was somewhat understandable. On the heels of four consecutive NL East titles and one world championship, there is no need to be so irrational and reactionary.

The Phillies, and Chase, are fine.

Share

  1. 58 Responses to “Chase Utley: Public Enemy Number One”

  2. By JKRC on Oct 26, 2010

    Well stated. People are idiots. He also brings intangibles you don’t find in other players. He makes mistakes like any other player, but he also works harder than other players.

  3. By Phillygirl17 on Oct 26, 2010

    I can’t believe that people were talking about trading Utley. That may have been the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. He postseason slash was not good. We all know that. And his regular season slash was low FOR HIM. Most players live their entire careers with lines like that. So he has a down year. These are also the same people that wanted to trade Hamels last year for having a bad season. Mark my words, he will come back stronger, better and more determined than ever. He did not like walking off the field as not a champion.

  4. By Sara on Oct 26, 2010

    Thanks for this. I hope that as we grow in distance from Saturday’s loss, the silly knee-jerk trade advice will subside. I always enjoy your posts.

  5. By Steve on Oct 26, 2010

    This is a fine article Bill, but in some ways, this is the worst part about the season ending. I hate having to read these types of blog posts, when I should be reading about the Roy Halladay/Cliff Lee matchup tonight. The offseason is filled with ridiculous rumors, especially in Philadelphia.

  6. By Bill Baer on Oct 26, 2010

    Agreed. I could do without the “zOmg the Phillies should sign Cliff Lee and Adrian Beltre and trade for Zack Greinke and Matt Kemp!!1!!1!” suggestions. Along with the tar-and-feathering of the team’s best player.

  7. By Richard on Oct 26, 2010

    Well said, Bill. I look for Chase Utley to have his best season in 2011. (I also look for Rollins to rebound significantly. It’s gotta be a point of pride for both of them.)

  8. By John M on Oct 26, 2010

    “Other teams already have second basemen, and other teams consider themselves too out-of-the-picture to jump in the conversation.”

    Bill – I agree wholeheartedly with your article, but that statement is kind of weak in your wrapping up of the post. Don’t teams always have SOMEONE to play second base? Would that really stop a team from trading for him? I mean, the Phils had 5 starting pitchers when they traded for Oswalt, but somehow they figured out a way to put a good pitcher on the team and in the rotation. And, isn’t the offseason one of the best times to try to make a trade? Teams would be building now for next season and beyond.

    That being said, unless Utley is part of a super deal in which they are also dumping Baez and Ibanez, and getting back a superstar, I’m not sure I can think of any reality in which trading Utley makes a whole lot of sense. But claiming that teams would be reluctant to trade for Utley now because they already have a second baseman makes no sense to me.

    Good work all year in driving some meaningful conversations about the Phils. Thanks for all your work.

  9. By Dan on Oct 26, 2010

    Unless Utley, Howard, and Ibanez go to St. Louis for Pujols, Holliday, and one of their top three pitchers, Utley is staying here. Since I think we can agree that’s not going to happen, I think the talks can go ahead and stop there.

    Also, I give anyone I hear even say a bad word against Utley a verbal beating. When my friends and I were watching Game 3 some idiot just walked in and said how bad Utley was and I just made fun of him until he left the room.

  10. By sean on Oct 26, 2010

    the easiest way to realize how stupid this is; if utley was a free agent what kind of deal would he get $ per year? 20,25? he’s signed at 15! if howard was a free agent he’d get what like 25, 30 because of past awards or whatever(not that he’s worth that), he’s getting 25 million a year when the extension kicks in. below market > at market value

  11. By Jeff on Oct 26, 2010

    You know part of this story alludes to the problem with Talk Radio. It’s a source of unmitigated crap. There is no control, no rational thinking, just an overwhelming desire to say “Listen to MEEEEEE, I don’t want to write anymore so I’ll just say anything”. I swear some of those guys (and one gal) would literally eat their young.

    I’m going to miss baseball until Feb/March. The problems notwithstanding, and Amaro has some work to do, it was a fun season. From the stretch drive through the playoffs it’s tiring being a good fan, although much more fun than not being a part of it.

    I also feel someone important on the Phillies is going to ‘move’…and I don’t mean Jayson.

    Go Phillies!!!

  12. By Jessamynn on Oct 26, 2010

    It’s almost unbelievable that anyone in this town could turn on Utley.

    He’s the closest thing to the perfect baseball player that we’ve ever had here, and people are turning on him? Kind of makes you wonder if McNabb ever stood a chance here.

  13. By bill on Oct 26, 2010

    I had to turn off the radio when I heard they wanted to trade Utley. It took me about 30 minutes to calm down.

    I totally understand that it is Missanelli’s job to stir up a trouble, and that’s fine, but unfortunately people get on board with it and start to get stupid ideas. Midseason they were talking about trading Jayson Werth for some “bench and bullpen help.” Yep, trading a top-5 in the MLB outfielder for some spare parts.

    Utley is still a great player, and totalled 5 WAR (fangraphs WAR) despite missing about 1/3 of the season, and coming back early from a thumb injury that clearly sapped his power. Can’t imagine the Phillies will actually trade him given he’s a top-5 player in all of baseball, but just the idea is painful to consider.

  14. By mike on Oct 26, 2010

    By bill on Oct 26, 2010

    I totally understand that it is Missanelli’s job to stir up a trouble, and that’s fine, but unfortunately people get on board with it and start to get stupid ideas.
    ******************************************

    I don’t listen to sports talk radio b/c I need all the brain cells I can get.

    Fortunately, RAJ obviously doesn’t really care what the sports radio crowd thinks.

    As far as deals, my bet is that Ibanez goes to make room for Brown, and the Phils suck it up for a season to keep Werth.

  15. By KH on Oct 26, 2010

    People are totally exaggerating. Utley is easily the Phillies most beloved player. As a matter of fact Utley is almost the Teflon man and rarely criticized. When he slumps people almost always cry injury or make excuses for him. Now you could say he is so great that he shouldn’t be criticized but no one is perfect. Utley deserves the criticism he is getting right now for a truly awful play-offs. A case can be made that if he played just a little bit better the Phillies would be the ones if the World Series. His defense was atrocious he messed up many plays that didn’t go down as a error but might as well been. Nobody but a few kooks have been talking about trading him. Get real people and keep your lips off of Utley’s butt because there are plenty there already.

  16. By KH on Oct 26, 2010

    I am not trying to bash Utley either he is a great player. All I am saying is the people of Philadelphia know it and lets not exaggerate the loud kooks going bananas because Utley had a terrible play-offs. Your average Phillies fan basically believes Chase Utley walks on water for the most part.

  17. By Jon on Oct 26, 2010

    Mike Missanelli – embarrassing The Pennsylvania State University since the mid-90s (the only fellow alum I dislike that much is SI Yankees-fellatrix Tom Verducci).

    KH, I don’t think anybody’s letting Utley “off the hook”. He had a terrible series, and is probably the #1 reason we lost. The question is whether people are going to ignore all the past success and hold that against him, which is ridiculous. Heck, Derek Jeter has too many choke series to count and he’s still beloved.

  18. By Jake on Oct 26, 2010

    So Marcus Hayes- in his live chat just decided that Philly loves utley and ignores his faults because he’s white. Conversely the city hates Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard because they are black.

    What bull. Perhaps he shoudl take a look at the numbers. He was harping about how much better the team was with Rollins hitting 250 than chase hitting 300 with 30 homers….why? Because Rollins can catch. Should we forward him this article? Perhaps he’d like to learn about defensive numbers. What an ass.

  19. By xyz on Oct 26, 2010

    I guess Mikey Miss would’ve traded Mike Schmidt after he had ‘a blip’ in 1978. What an idiot! My boycott of his show is permanent this time. I won’t be going to Tonelli’s Pizza Pub either, or whatever that place he shills for is.

  20. By Scott G on Oct 26, 2010

    People are the worst.

    Mike,

    I am praying that you are right about the Phillies keeping Werth.

  21. By Peter S on Oct 26, 2010

    Bill,
    Thanks for the article. Our local ESPN station in Williamsport was having a similar discussion about Utley – also recommending moving him to a different position because he was so poor defensively. They decided he’s getting old and can’t handle 2B.

    I wanted to yell at the station (I’m disappointed it wasn’t a call-in show) “did you tune in during the regular season?”

    This “recency” effect is awful.

  22. By HPoe on Oct 26, 2010

    Thanks for some great words. Utley wasn’t the only one who couldn’t seem to hit the ball in the normal Philly way – Howard had a hard time.

  23. By Matt on Oct 26, 2010

    I don’t even understand the basis, he had a bad postseason after surgery on a broken thumb and most likely the loss of a good amount of hand strength… If we really think its a great idea to saddle blame on someone, shouldn’t it be Howard who failed in any number of clutch situations to connect with the ball. and who had no excuse?

  24. By Carole on Oct 26, 2010

    The only reason his mistakes stand out so much is because he has set the bar for flawless and consistent performance so high. Even at his worst he is better then the rest!

    Get rid of Howard.. he gives nothing to the team except alot of players stranded on base in clutch moments. Now there is a big waste of a lot of money…!!!!

  25. By Greg Hill on Oct 26, 2010

    Chase Utley isn’t going anywhere. Ruben Amaro is no fool.

    Sports Radio in Philly is a joke. Missanelli used to be on WIP with Angelo Cataldi, who insisted that Charlie Manuel knew nothing about baseball, ridiculed Charlie’s gentle and unpretentious manner and his courtly Southern ways, and insisted that the Phillies would go nowhere with “Jolly Cholly” as Manager.

    The one thing you can count on in this town is that when the front office of a sports franchise hears about a crusade by Misanelli or Cataldi on Sports Radio, the front office tries very hard to do precisely the opposite of what Misanelli and Cataldi recommend. They make out quite well when they do so.

  26. By bob mc on Oct 26, 2010

    This offense needs to be made younger and switched from one that only has a power approach to one that has a balanced power approach (homes runs AND small ball) like the teams that made it to the World Series. I saw a proposed trade of Utley for Wright. I would not be oposed to that (without knowing whether it is even remotely possible). I would not cry if Utley, Rollins, Ibanez or Victorino were traded in the off season provided that Rube believed we upgraded to a more balanced offensive game. So while I understand the point of your article, ranting radio jocks should have no impact of decisions but changes need to be made to this offense before Spring Training next year….

  27. By Scott G on Oct 26, 2010

    So trading Chase Utley for David Wright is playing small ball?

    David Wright had a down year as well if I’m not mistaken. Especially defensively.

    Small ball is bad strategy.

    Greg Hill,

    Charlie Manuel is a pretty bad strategic manager. He might be good for the players, but his baseball logic isn’t too good. I’m not sure I would make that argument if I were you. However, the Phillies have won with him as manager. I attribute that to having some of the best players in baseball and luck.

  28. By bob on Oct 26, 2010

    TRADE UTLEY FOR DAVID WRIGHT???????????????? I WOULDNT DO IT EVEN F THEY THREW IN 40 MIL AND A 12 1SR ROUND PICKS…………2 DIFF PLAYERS……WHICH IS WHY NY METS BLOW THEY KEEP SIGNING PLAYERS THEY DONT NEED………..

  29. By Steve on Oct 26, 2010

    Utley is a Phili and should remain so. It was the team’s offense that fell short in September as well as the post season; Howard, Ibanez, and Werth.

  30. By Bill Baer on Oct 26, 2010

    While I agree with your larger point, Steve, I need to point out the following:

    September/Oct regular season OPS

    Howard: .939
    Ibanez: .919
    Werth: .969

    NLCS OPS

    Howard: .900
    Ibanez: .513
    Werth: .986

    None of the three had an offensive dip in September and Ibanez was the only one of the trio to perform poorly in the post-season.

  31. By CH Phan on Oct 26, 2010

    My head’s spinning. Glad I didn’t hear Missanelli. Have to agree w/Jeff – that kind of talk radio is “unmitigated crap”. Utley isn’t going anywhere & he’s rarely, if ever criticized. But his rep is well earned. I tend to think his playoff errors stood out b/c it was the playoffs & every movement is noted, b/c everyone was watching his comeback from an injury, b/c his position at 2nd is pivotal, & b/c sadly runs came in on a couple of the errors.

    Scott: I don’t know if people are “the worst” but the fact that they want the FO to re-sign Werth doesn’t make them stupid. I’d like them to re-sign Werth too. I think a compromise is best for the team & Werth. Just my opinion.

    Re: Stupidity – I’m beginning to think ignorance is encouraged now, or maybe more people are just outright stupid. I just don’t know, but it seems to have become a real issue.

    “There’s more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe; and it has a longer shelf life.” – Frank Zappa”

    “The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.” -Bertrand Russell

    “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

  32. By CH Phan on Oct 26, 2010

    Steve: Flatout, you’re wrong. And Werth in no way belongs on that list for September & postseason offensive slumps. Werth hit & hit well. In point of fact, he’s one of the major reasons we made it to the playoffs.

    Two times he didn’t hit: the last series of games with the Marlins & the 3 NLDS games w/the Reds. That’s all.

  33. By Q on Oct 26, 2010

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Phillies_chat_with_Marcus_Hayes_102610.html

  34. By Scott G on Oct 26, 2010

    CH Phan,

    You’re around here as often as me, so I’m surprised you took my comment in that way. If they DON’T re-sign Werth I will be furious. I love Werth.

    Btw, Bill, that Always Sunny video leaves out one of the funniest parts, I’m not sure it does it justice. Very nice addition, though lol.

  35. By Bill Baer on Oct 26, 2010

    The chat with Marcus Hayes that Q links above is pretty funny. Just more evidence that sportswriters in the mainstream media, generally speaking, are clueless and becoming increasingly irrelevant.

  36. By hk on Oct 26, 2010

    CH Phan, you can add…

    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!” – George Carlin

  37. By Scott G on Oct 26, 2010

    Wow, that Marcus Hayes chat seemed really boring until about 80% through. The race issue is absurd. I guess stats are racist too?

  38. By RandyD on Oct 26, 2010

    With all the over reacting, knee jerk comments I read regarding sports I found it refreshing to read the comments here about Utley. At least the people here are thoughtful and don’t over react to a player having an off year. And as one person noted, look at what the Phillies would have lost had they traded Hamels last year. Thanks to all of the posters!

  39. By charladan on Oct 26, 2010

    Utley needs to work on his defense. He has never been an elite fielder, good but not elite. His hitting, and the rest of the regulars, should return to average next year. Everyone have a beer and relax. We are in the midst of a great run in Phillies baseball. They have not fallen off of a cliff. It just feels like it right now. Four months till spring training.

  40. By Cindy on Oct 27, 2010

    I totally agree with charladan….give it a rest people!!! Let the team get some well-deserved rest over the winter before all the trade nonsense starts….

  41. By mikkyld on Oct 27, 2010

    I fully agree that Chase is just that good – I am still pissed the cards bypassed him in the draft for a 2b who never played anywhere.

    However, moving Chase for something of value and then signing Beltre with placido moving to 2B would likely improve the Phils overall.

    Salary wouldn’t be much higher, the lineup would now have the needed RH bat in the middle and defense would remain about the same overall.

    Not getting full value for him would be stupid even so and giving him away even more ridiculous. Meaning that trading him may not be that simple a task given that the perception is that Chase has slowed down this year.

    I seriously doubt that is the case but I do not have the ability to make a trade for him either :)

  42. By Don on Oct 27, 2010

    Philly sports radio is so awful. At least in other markets, while it is reactionary and irrational just as much, some hosts actually have a general knowledge of MLB. The problem with the guys on in Philly is they are all based in football/Eagles, so when they actually have to talk Phillies for about 3 weeks of the calendar year, they just move their football mentality over to baseball. It’s horrible…and I really think these guys are influential to the point that it brainwashes people. There are a lot of Philly fans who are like sheep. Just look at Eskin with Abreu.

  43. By JVill on Oct 27, 2010

    This is for you people out there that don’t understand why Chase Utley is never critized by Phillies fans. The guy plays the game the right way! Plain and simple, that is the answer. I haven’t seen another player in the game today that plays the way he does. Chase hussles every play. Even if it’s routine ground ball to the first baseman, you will find him sprinting to the bag. Another thing that amazes me is that he will not budge if a 95 MPH fastball is heading towards him… he simply turns, takes the hit by pitch, and runs(not walks) to first base. It’s not only the numbers Utley produces year after year, but also the intangibles in his game that earn him the respect of Philadelphia. He is a throw back player in an era of pre-madonna athletes. Any one who is truly a fan of baseball, or sports in that matter, has to appreciate the rare player that Chase Utley is.

  44. By keng on Oct 27, 2010

    what about trading utley and maybe a couple others we dont need or want but others may find attractive to washington for zimmerman?? – and moving polanco to second?? – utleys skills may be moving south! – and than letting werth go – hopefully to the yankees so they r not in the bidding for crawford – and than doing everything we can do to get crawford – in this case maybe victorino moves back to right? – and then try to shift brown into left hoping he continues to develop – and in doing all this also move howard out of the clean up spot – too much pressure for him – makes him think he has to hit homers and carry the team – he hits better out of the 5 spot and has when charlie has played him there to take pressure off him!! – love this all around lineup defensively and offensively: rollins – polanco – crawford – zimmerman – howard – brown – victorino – ruiz

  45. By Scott G on Oct 28, 2010

    First, Chase Utley is an elite defender. According to some of the defensive metrics that Bill has posted numerous times, he has been the best defensive second baseman over the last 5 years. Seeing as how 2B is the 3rd hardest/most important position on the field behind C and SS, I’d say he’s nearly elite.

    Mikky,

    Chase Utley is better than Beltre. How would having Beltre and Polanco be better for our team than having Utley and Polanco. Polanco is getting older, and 2B is harder to play than 3B.

    JVill,

    While I love Utley and the way he plays, maybe it would be better if he got out of the way of some of those pitches. I think the way he just takes it and runs down to first is beastly, but maybe it’s not smart. He has been seriously injured when getting hit before, and he puts his body through the wringer as it is. I do love his hustle on routine grounders, though. Prima donna, not pre-madonna btw.

  46. By mikkyld on Oct 28, 2010

    scott, I agree but it is clear that the preponderance of LH hitters can be exploited at key times – to the point that Philly is considering big bucks for werth at the potential cost of no place for Brown to play.

    So even though chase is way better than beltre, the net result to the phils would (to me anyway) seem to be an improvement.

    With the decent RH bat, they wouldn’t need to overpay to keep werth for one thing.

    Oh and though he is older, placido was always a better 2B than 3B

  47. By Scott G on Oct 28, 2010

    Jayson Werth deserves the preponderance of money he is going to get. The Phillies should absolutely re-sign him. The Phillies only have 3 LHBs if you ask me: Howard, Utley, and Ibanez/Brown. If you do everything correctly, a lineup would look something like Utley, Werth, Howard, RHB or SH, Ibanez.

    Splitting up the lefties would effectively neutralize the LH reliever threat. Either Werth sees a LHP, or the opposing manager needs to do some serious work.

  48. By mikkyld on Oct 28, 2010

    I agree the phils need to re-sign werth if they don’t or can’t get another RH bat. However, we will just agree to disagree as to whether he is worth a preponderance of money :)

    I note you have just left brown out of the picture and put some (hypothetical? imaginary?) RH or SH hitter in the five hole. Surely you don’t think victorino cuts it there in the lineup, do you?

  49. By ron Cornwall on Oct 29, 2010

    i love you sabremetricians.
    how do bating averages of .332, .292, .282, .275 in consecutive years not represent decline?!?!
    i don’t want to trade chase utley, but why is he beyond reproach? why does criticism of chase utley engender such outrage?
    i think marcus hayes is onto something.

  50. By ron Cornwall on Oct 29, 2010

    OPS of .976, .915, .905, .832 since 06.
    Decline in effect.

  51. By Scott G on Oct 29, 2010

    Mikky,

    Against LHP, I definitely wouldn’t mind batting Victorino 5th (or 1st or 3rd to break up LHBs for that matter). Victorino against LHP is actually pretty good.

    ron Cornwall,

    Utley was playing hurt this year. I’ll take him right around a .900 OPS though.

    Albert Pujols is declining too right? 1.114, 1.101, 1.011. They should probably get rid of him, he’s worthless lol.

  52. By ron Cornwall on Oct 29, 2010

    me too. but he’s at .832 this year. hurt schmurt. he’s dinged every year… the same as everyone else. these numbers are cross sections of his plate appearances that project over 162 the same way… i’m not even getting into his power numbers. his doubles, hrs, and slugging are trending down the same way.

    i think a more accurate comparison would be with a 2nd baseman that has also not won multiple mvp trophies… someone like richie weeks, dan uggla or robinson cano. chase falls somewhere between them.

  53. By Scott G on Oct 29, 2010

    Unbelievable. You’re basing this stuff off of subjective voting? You do realize that Utley was more valuable in 2007 when Jimmy Rollins won the MVP?

    Votto, Pujols, CarGo, and Tulo all can’t win the MVP this year. At least three of them “suck” for not being better, right?

  54. By ron Cornwall on Oct 30, 2010

    scott g
    you missed the point. pujols is an unfit comparison as chase has not won multiple mvp awards and is a second baseman.
    don’t be dense to defend your holey argument.

  55. By Scott G on Oct 30, 2010

    Using Pujols was a joke (hence the lol). You cited Chase’s declining OPS numbers. .976 is pretty lofty and probably could not be sustained. The next two seasons his OPSes were almost equal. This year they were likely down because of injury. He played out of his mind in 07, played almost identically in 08 and 09, and then played injured in 10. I wouldn’t say he’s declining. I’d say his 08 and 09 numbers are what you should expect.

    You also used an MVP award as a barometer of how good a player is. I don’t think I should need to explain to you why that is flawed.

  56. By hk on Oct 30, 2010

    ron Cornwall: “he’s dinged every year… the same as everyone else. these numbers are cross sections of his plate appearances that project over 162 the same way… i’m not even getting into his power numbers. his doubles, hrs, and slugging are trending down the same way.”

    In a year where he came back early from an injured thumb, Utley produced a.373 wOBA, good enough to tie him for 28th in MLB with Hanley Ramirez and Joe Mauer and place him 1st among Phillies expected to return in 2011. If the FO is stupid enough to trade Utley and not resign Werth, the 2011 season will make the 2010 post-season look like an offensive explosion by comparison.

  57. By Scott G on Oct 30, 2010

    cheer hk. where’d you find a sortable list of wOBA?

  58. By hk on Oct 31, 2010

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2010&month=0

  59. By Scott G on Oct 31, 2010

    thanks

Post a Comment