Comments on: Ryan Howard’s Days in Philly: Numbered? http://crashburnalley.com/2008/04/04/ryan-howards-days-in-philly-numbered/ Philadelphia Phillies baseball analysis that everyone can enjoy. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:17:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bill Baer http://crashburnalley.com/2008/04/04/ryan-howards-days-in-philly-numbered/comment-page-1/#comment-2044 Bill Baer Mon, 07 Apr 2008 08:25:31 +0000 http://crashburnalley.com/?p=107#comment-2044 <i>I don’t agree that the Phillies “botched” the Schilling and Rolen deals. Both were the result of players who told the rest of the league they wanted out, so the everyone knew the team was trading from a weak position.</i> This is the fault of the Phillies, though, CJ. Both felt the Phillies organization wasn't putting 100% into fielding a competitive team. P.J., I was despondent when the Phillies' upper management chose an old, injury prone, ineffectual David Bell over Polanco. Then to see him put up some pretty good years in Detroit while the Phillies fumbled around with Bell's last years, Abraham Nunez, and Wes Helms (and now Pedro Feliz)... you can't help but feel remorseful. Carl, I don't read enough of Stark's work to know what kind of bias he has for or against teams and players, but from what I've seen and read, he seems pro-Philly. Not sure what he'd have against Howard. On <a href="http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080221_Ryan_Howard_wins_arbitration.html" rel="nofollow">Todd Zolecki's blog</a>, he said of Howard, "It was believed that reaching an agreement with Howard on a multiyear contract is going to be difficult. He was seeking a contract far in excess of the seven-year, $100 million contract extension that the St. Louis Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols received in 2004." Sky, the age is probably the biggest factor with Howard. The Phillies actually are lucky that they brought him up so late because unless they trade him soon, they are guaranteed to have him in his prime years, and can simply brush their hands on that downward slope. Nick, there's no one in the Schilling deal I'd have wanted to stick around longer than they had to. Vicente Padilla was good for a couple seasons but I'm glad they finally got rid of him, he's really not much better than Adam Eaton. Polanco is the only player in any of the deals I had any interest in keeping. I don’t agree that the Phillies “botched” the Schilling and Rolen deals. Both were the result of players who told the rest of the league they wanted out, so the everyone knew the team was trading from a weak position.

This is the fault of the Phillies, though, CJ. Both felt the Phillies organization wasn’t putting 100% into fielding a competitive team.

P.J., I was despondent when the Phillies’ upper management chose an old, injury prone, ineffectual David Bell over Polanco. Then to see him put up some pretty good years in Detroit while the Phillies fumbled around with Bell’s last years, Abraham Nunez, and Wes Helms (and now Pedro Feliz)… you can’t help but feel remorseful.

Carl, I don’t read enough of Stark’s work to know what kind of bias he has for or against teams and players, but from what I’ve seen and read, he seems pro-Philly. Not sure what he’d have against Howard.

On Todd Zolecki’s blog, he said of Howard, “It was believed that reaching an agreement with Howard on a multiyear contract is going to be difficult. He was seeking a contract far in excess of the seven-year, $100 million contract extension that the St. Louis Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols received in 2004.”

Sky, the age is probably the biggest factor with Howard. The Phillies actually are lucky that they brought him up so late because unless they trade him soon, they are guaranteed to have him in his prime years, and can simply brush their hands on that downward slope.

Nick, there’s no one in the Schilling deal I’d have wanted to stick around longer than they had to. Vicente Padilla was good for a couple seasons but I’m glad they finally got rid of him, he’s really not much better than Adam Eaton.

Polanco is the only player in any of the deals I had any interest in keeping.

]]> By: Nick http://crashburnalley.com/2008/04/04/ryan-howards-days-in-philly-numbered/comment-page-1/#comment-2041 Nick Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:06:32 +0000 http://crashburnalley.com/?p=107#comment-2041 In the Phil's defense, they made a good deal for Rolen at the time. In retrospect, it looks horrible, but put yourself back in 2002 and it wasn't an awful trade. As a Cardinals fan, I can honestly tell you it hurt at the time to lose Bud Smith, he had a great rookie season, 3.83 ERA, 1.2ish WHIP, 59 K's to 24 Walks. We liked him, and thought that he was going to be special for us. He wasn't an Ace, but he figured to be a solid 2-3 guy for years to come. His sophmore season started out horrible, so I guess everything I just said can be erased, lol 1-5, 6.90 something ERA, 1.8ish WHIP (don't quote me on this, but those numbers are close). As far as Polanco is concerned, he's solid as they come. Timlin has been good, and then poor his whole career, but the Phils could definately have used him over the past few years. Just because they botched the handling of these guys after the deal, doesn't mean that the deal was awful. It's the handling of contracts and refusal to spend money that kills them. In the Phil’s defense, they made a good deal for Rolen at the time. In retrospect, it looks horrible, but put yourself back in 2002 and it wasn’t an awful trade. As a Cardinals fan, I can honestly tell you it hurt at the time to lose Bud Smith, he had a great rookie season, 3.83 ERA, 1.2ish WHIP, 59 K’s to 24 Walks. We liked him, and thought that he was going to be special for us. He wasn’t an Ace, but he figured to be a solid 2-3 guy for years to come. His sophmore season started out horrible, so I guess everything I just said can be erased, lol 1-5, 6.90 something ERA, 1.8ish WHIP (don’t quote me on this, but those numbers are close). As far as Polanco is concerned, he’s solid as they come. Timlin has been good, and then poor his whole career, but the Phils could definately have used him over the past few years. Just because they botched the handling of these guys after the deal, doesn’t mean that the deal was awful. It’s the handling of contracts and refusal to spend money that kills them.

]]> By: Sky http://crashburnalley.com/2008/04/04/ryan-howards-days-in-philly-numbered/comment-page-1/#comment-2040 Sky Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:13:29 +0000 http://crashburnalley.com/?p=107#comment-2040 Howard meets almost every criteria for being overrated (and thus over-payed): easy defensive position poor fielder at his position RBI guy plays in hitter's park older than you think His high-strikeout total probably brings down his hype a bit (although it shouldn't) and his high-walk totals help his underrated side. There's no reason to pay a guy like this what he'll demand, even though he's a very good player. Howard meets almost every criteria for being overrated (and thus over-payed):

easy defensive position
poor fielder at his position
RBI guy
plays in hitter’s park
older than you think

His high-strikeout total probably brings down his hype a bit (although it shouldn’t) and his high-walk totals help his underrated side.

There’s no reason to pay a guy like this what he’ll demand, even though he’s a very good player.

]]> By: Carl http://crashburnalley.com/2008/04/04/ryan-howards-days-in-philly-numbered/comment-page-1/#comment-2036 Carl Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:58:40 +0000 http://crashburnalley.com/?p=107#comment-2036 In my opinion, Stark doesn't like Howard. He rarely, if ever has something nice to say about him or his camp. He has been one of the main people pumping up the notion that Howard wants some sort of $200 mil contract. I never hear any RELIABLE source quoting that sort of thing. In my opinion, Stark doesn’t like Howard. He rarely, if ever has something nice to say about him or his camp. He has been one of the main people pumping up the notion that Howard wants some sort of $200 mil contract. I never hear any RELIABLE source quoting that sort of thing.

]]> By: P.J. http://crashburnalley.com/2008/04/04/ryan-howards-days-in-philly-numbered/comment-page-1/#comment-2035 P.J. Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:39:47 +0000 http://crashburnalley.com/?p=107#comment-2035 Not only is Henry a bust of a prospect, he's not even with the Phillies anymore. He's back with the Yankees (November) after the Phils let him go. I actually think the Rolen deal could have been OK had they re-signed Polanco and put him at third. That's the botched part. Plus, Rolen wanted out at that time and the Phils were kinda hung out to dry. Not only is Henry a bust of a prospect, he’s not even with the Phillies anymore. He’s back with the Yankees (November) after the Phils let him go.

I actually think the Rolen deal could have been OK had they re-signed Polanco and put him at third. That’s the botched part. Plus, Rolen wanted out at that time and the Phils were kinda hung out to dry.

]]> By: CJ http://crashburnalley.com/2008/04/04/ryan-howards-days-in-philly-numbered/comment-page-1/#comment-2033 CJ Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:34:17 +0000 http://crashburnalley.com/?p=107#comment-2033 I don't agree that the Phillies "botched" the Schilling and Rolen deals. Both were the result of players who told the rest of the league they wanted out, so the everyone knew the team was trading from a weak position. I never heard anyone suggest any better deals that were available. I guess you could say they botched it by not dealing the players before it became clear the team has no choice but to deal them. I don’t agree that the Phillies “botched” the Schilling and Rolen deals. Both were the result of players who told the rest of the league they wanted out, so the everyone knew the team was trading from a weak position.

I never heard anyone suggest any better deals that were available.

I guess you could say they botched it by not dealing the players before it became clear the team has no choice but to deal them.

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