Hooking Left: Cuba Tees Up Golf’s Revival
By JOSÉ DE CÓRDOBA
February 23, 2008; Page A1
Now that Fidel Castro has retired, perhaps he can find the time to work on his golf game.
In 1962, Mr. Castro lost a round of golf to Ernesto “Che” Guevara, who had been a caddy in his Argentine hometown before he became a guerrilla icon. Mr. Castro’s defeat may have had disastrous consequences for the sport. He had one Havana golf course turned into a military school, another into an art school. A journalist who wrote about the defeat of Cuba’s Maximum Leader, who was a notoriously bad loser, was fired the next day.
Now, top officials on the island want to turn Mr. Castro’s Communist paradise into a hotspot for this decidedly capitalist sport, to generate hard cash for its cash-strapped economy.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120372084292586793.html

Some people find baseball as repellent as you find golf. I love both.

Enough. The problem, as ultra-liberal ex-San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown even learned was, ‘Wow. Many people who live on the streets and drink and do drunks and don’t work really don’t want to be moved to a building with minimal standards of behavior.’ It’s just not as simple as ‘clearing land for the homeless.’ If it was, someone would have thought of it before an aging comedian.

*And a lot of our homeless are either veterans of the armed forces, or children. I thought you were all about helping children?

Yes. The real way. Remember our whole ‘marriage and fatherhood’ debate we had? How many of the homeless women with children got married?

“Lack of space is not an issue in providing short-term, non-solution shelter.”
*This:

And that Wikipedia entry based on an unavailable New Yorker article argues that space is an issue…how?

*Again, it’s not a solution that will end homelessness. It’s aid to people who need it. I don’t know how many times I can say this.

Because your insistence that ‘it’s not supposed to be a long-term solution’ requires us to pretend no short-term solutions exist, when they do. That’s the whole point of the original post…it’s either a solution, or a novel idea that requires finding underused land (golf courses). It’s neither. The areas with high homeless numbers have lots of available property. It’s just an awful premise.

“I mean you’re serious in actually advocating the golf-courses-for-the-homeless thing.”
*It makes too much sense.

Of course. And no one but left-leaning atheists like you and Carlin have the brains and balls to understand it. That’s just silly.

“The purpose of golf is provide recreation.”
*The purpose of a community allowing a businessmen to create and operate a golf course is because it will reciprocate to the community.

First, the ‘purpose of a community’ is to butt out and allow free people to live free. Second, who will judge whether an entity properly “reciprocates” a community? How many jobs to playgrounds provide? Or parks? Do public golf courses count?

*Eventually you’re going to have to buy your own equipment. You can’t mooch forever. Golf equipment is expensive. You can dance around this all you want, but it’s just an ancillary fact that is really not worth being stubborn about.

Uh, going after a sport because you deem it too expensive? Yeah, I’ll be stubborn about that. I’m a middle class kid from Philly without a lot of money who managed to play golf. Now, it did require the help of one of those optional “dad” thingys you’re not too keen on. But the majority of kids with decent dads shouldn’t have a tradition snuffed out because you deem their sport too expensive for you, should they?

“By the way, ice hockey is costly to play too.”
*Not at all around here. This is a ice rink about two minutes away from where I live. It’s $6 for a kid’s pass, $7 for an adult’s, and $3 for skate rentals.

I said ice hockey, not skating. Lots of equipment. Teams have play lots of money for ice time. (It’s one of the long-running ‘why isn’t hockey popular with urban kids’ explanations..) So do we covert the ice rinks to homeless shelters, or can those spoiled white kids still play?

“9-11 was the work of Muslim extremists. That’s reality.”
*And we shouldn’t question that?

Question whatever makes you feel good. But accept the answer. There is a point at which reasonable questioning passes into misleading people and poisoning the minds of the impressionable so they feel contempt for the same things the conspiracy-spreaders do. It’s a nasty habit.

“9-11 conspiracies are just drugs for those who get their high believing the obstacles in their lives are the result of some shadowy network of evil white men.”
*The fact that most Congresspeople are white and male has little to do with it.

Nah. That just explains who the Bad Guys are. They look like Hollywood says they look like. But conspiracies in general are just religion for the non-religious.

*I think you, like most people, are not actually skeptical, but close-minded towards the conspiracy theories simply because they are conspiracy theories.

Ha. I grew up with this shit. It’s part of dominant, conventional wisdom. I’ve read extensively about the JFK theories. I realized I was duped by people who expect their villains to be something other than a left-wing extremist. And the thought that non-white extremists were behind 9-11, as they themselves say, is just too much for people weaned on Hollywood’s insistence that every evil can be traced back some old white guy.

*For the record, I don’t buy the conspiracy theories either, but it’s important to be open-minded towards the thought and the possibility.

There comes a point at which “open minded” becomes “I buy it.” At some point, you have to take a stand. People who remain “open minded” about Creationism vs Evolution are not seen as open-minded, they are seen as denying reality.

*Even if they turn out to be untrue, they’re important in principle to question those in power.

You acknowledge no downside to letting untruths linger? Questioning “those in power” is the one constant pop culture message every kid receives from the age of 14 on up. I think it’s covered.

Not enough. And a lot of our homeless are either veterans of the armed forces, or children. I thought you were all about helping children?

Lack of space is not an issue in providing short-term, non-solution shelter.

This:

Rather than channeling funds into direct services that seemingly sustain homeless lifestyles, these result-oriented plans are designed to focus efforts and funds on the creation of permanent supportive housing (PSH) for the most troubled and difficult, “chronic” homeless population. Considering that it is actually cheaper to house someone than it is to fund the otherwise needed myriad services, this approach is touted as being a cost-effective solution.

I meant that it’s a plan that assumes wrongly that there is a simple solution.

Again, it’s not a solution that will end homelessness. It’s aid to people who need it. I don’t know how many times I can say this.

I mean you’re serious in actually advocating the golf-courses-for-the-homeless thing.

It makes too much sense.

The number of people employed in baseball vs golf means nothing.

Yes, it does mean something. In our hypotheticals, if we’re turning both a baseball stadium and a golf course into housing, we have to look at who is going to be affected by the change. Baseball stadiums employ thousands of people; golf courses employ hundreds. This has an effect on the local economy.

The purpose of golf is provide recreation.

The purpose of a community allowing a businessmen to create and operate a golf course is because it will reciprocate to the community.

That’s how almost everyone gets there start.

Eventually you’re going to have to buy your own equipment. You can’t mooch forever. Golf equipment is expensive. You can dance around this all you want, but it’s just an ancillary fact that is really not worth being stubborn about.

By the way, ice hockey is costly to play too.

Not at all around here. This is a ice rink about two minutes away from where I live. It’s $6 for a kid’s pass, $7 for an adult’s, and $3 for skate rentals.

George hates the golfers. Bill hates the capitalists.

I don’t hate anyone. I dislike the ideology of capitalism.

9-11 was the work of Muslim extremists. That’s reality.

And we shouldn’t question that?

9-11 conspiracies are just drugs for those who get their high believing the obstacles in their lives are the result of some shadowy network of evil white men.

The fact that most Congresspeople are white and male has little to do with it.

I think you, like most people, are not actually skeptical, but close-minded towards the conspiracy theories simply because they are conspiracy theories.

For the record, I don’t buy the conspiracy theories either, but it’s important to be open-minded towards the thought and the possibility.

Conspiracy theories in general exist to offer comforting explanations to sudden shocking events.

I disagree. Even if they turn out to be untrue, they’re important in principle to question those in power.

But, again, we have emergency shelters for the homeless. Lack of space is not an issue in providing short-term, non-solution shelter.

*Calling anything “simple-minded” or [insert derisive adjective] because it’s liberal (or conservative, for that matter) is not very smart…

To be honest, I thought I took out the “minded” part before I posted it. I meant that it’s a plan that assumes wrongly that there is a simple solution.

“Holy shit you’re serious.”
*Yes. They’re not being forced to give up their courses. The option is presented to them.

I mean you’re serious in actually advocating the golf-courses-for-the-homeless thing.

*Again, you whined about baseball stadiums in your initial comment… I was showing how much more these stadiums provide to their communities than golf courses. Golf courses provide very little to the communities they are in.

Ha. That wasn’t a ‘whine.’ It was attempting to show you the fatal flaw in the premise. We could turn lots of sports sites into homes for the homeless. The number of people employed in baseball vs golf means nothing. The purpose of golf is provide recreation. Period.

*Yes, it’s just so easy to mooch golf equipment. If I wanted to play golf right now, I’d have no one to mooch golf equipment off of. I don’t know anyone that plays it.

Then you probably wouldn’t be playing would you? That’s how almost everyone gets there start. Being introduced by someone who plays or played. (The same as pretty much *every* sport.) If we want to go with you unlikely scenario, you would buy or rent a few second-hand clubs and play. But it’s not a real scenario. By the way, ice hockey is costly to play too. Is that another sport for white fat cats that should be eliminated?

*But you said the hatred was directed at capitalists, not golfers.

George hates the golfers. Bill hates the capitalists.

“Just how crazy has Carlin become? Here he is giving the wrong answer* to a 9-11 conspiracy nut”

*I don’t see anything “wrong” with what he said. He’s a skeptic, and he gave a skeptical response.

People who question evolution consider themselves skeptics too. I consider myself a skeptic. I’m so skeptical that I’m skeptical of the skeptics. JFK was murdered by a left-wing extremist. 9-11 was the work of Muslim extremists. That’s reality. 9-11 conspiracies are just drugs for those who get their high believing the obstacles in their lives are the result of some shadowy network of evil white men. Conspiracy theories in general exist to offer comforting explanations to sudden shocking events. A lot like religion.

Again, it’s not a solution to homelessness just as providing shelter to battered wives isn’t a solution to domestic abuse. It’s aid to people who need help.

just these kinds of liberal ideas.

Calling anything “simple-minded” or [insert derisive adjective] because it’s liberal (or conservative, for that matter) is not very smart…

Holy shit you’re serious.

Yes. They’re not being forced to give up their courses. The option is presented to them.

The role of recreational sports is not to create jobs. It’s to provide recreation.

Again, you whined about baseball stadiums in your initial comment… I was showing how much more these stadiums provide to their communities than golf courses. Golf courses provide very little to the communities they are in.

My approach is borrowing clubs from your dad or a friend, playing golf at a low-cost course, and not whining about rich white people.

Yes, it’s just so easy to mooch golf equipment. If I wanted to play golf right now, I’d have no one to mooch golf equipment off of. I don’t know anyone that plays it.

The rant makes clear there is an irrational hatred of golfers.

But you said the hatred was directed at capitalists, not golfers.

Just how crazy has Carlin become? Here he is giving the wrong answer* to a 9-11 conspiracy nut

“I always question the perceived reality. The consensus reality is often intentionally misleading.”

“They [the government] don’t investigate themselves in this country. It would be like the Kennedy thing, it’d be like everything. The people who are in charge do what they want and they will always do what they want. The power does what it wants to. I wouldn’t trust an investigation, it’s just fun, it’d good speculation.”

I don’t see anything “wrong” with what he said. He’s a skeptic, and he gave a skeptical response.

We already provide emergency shelter. I don’t know what the hell your “plan” entails, if you think “giving” homes to the homeless is the solution, you haven’t given the problem much thought.

*Watch FOX News enough?

I hate Fox News. I called it simple-minded because it is not a serious plan. I don’t think you or Carlin are simple-minded, just these kinds of liberal ideas.

*The owners of the courses would be offered tax breaks for donating the land, or the government would attempt to buy it outright. I don’t know all of the technicalities that would be involved with that, but it’s entirely possible.

Holy shit you’re serious.

*That’s not what I’m talking about. For one, golf courses create very few jobs

The role of recreational sports is not to create jobs. It’s to provide recreation.

“I think my approach is more rational and common.”

*What approach? You haven’t offered one.

My approach is borrowing clubs from your dad or a friend, playing golf at a low-cost course, and not whining about rich white people.

*Total mischaracterization. It’s not to hurt anyone; it’s to help the homeless.

No, that’s only part of it. The least serious part. The rant makes clear there is an irrational hatred of golfers.

Just how crazy has Carlin become? Here he is giving the wrong answer* to a 9-11 conspiracy nut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pow5_UYKaJ8&feature=related

*The wrong answer is any answer besides “You’re an immature knucklehead. Get lost.”

Uh… yeah. Giving shelter to shelterless people doesn’t help them at all.

That’s what simple-minded liberal “solutions” are designed to do.

Watch FOX News enough?

We don’t seize private land and build them homes.

If Carlin’s idea is anything like mine, the land wouldn’t be seized. The owners of the courses would be offered tax breaks for donating the land, or the government would attempt to buy it outright. I don’t know all of the technicalities that would be involved with that, but it’s entirely possible.

And I’m sure private golf courses pay taxes to the community.

They do. That’s not what I’m talking about. For one, golf courses create very few jobs, whereas sports stadiums (again, what you alluded to in your first comment) generate thousands of jobs.

I think my approach is more rational and common.

What approach? You haven’t offered one.

And common != correct.

I just don’t get the passion for targeting something many regular people enjoy just to hurt the many capitalists who enjoy it too.

Total mischaracterization. It’s not to hurt anyone; it’s to help the homeless.

This doesn’t help the needy. It helps the people who want to look like they’re helping the needy. That’s what simple-minded liberal “solutions” are designed to do.

“It wasn’t supposed to…Giving battered wives a place to stay doesn’t address the cause of wife-beating, does it?”

That would be an emergency shelter for battered women. We don’t seize private land and build them homes. We also provide emergency shelters for the homeless.

“Anything can give older people something to do. What I was talking about was generating revenue back to the community,”

Oh. It’s all about money. I’m sure most people who get exercise and enjoyment out of golf would have them keep the money in return for a little enjoyment. And I’m sure private golf courses pay taxes to the community.

“Well, everyone can play now! They just need to mooch.”

Or shut down the golf courses. I think my approach is more rational and common.

“But if you want to deny that golf and businessmen have no relationship to each other…”

I’m not denying any “relationship.” I just don’t get the passion for targeting something many regular people enjoy just to hurt the many capitalists who enjoy it too.

Carlin on cats & dogs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDKRyJIrYZY

I guess helping needy people isn’t a good thing.

doesn’t address the causes of homelessness.

It wasn’t supposed to…

Giving battered wives a place to stay doesn’t address the cause of wife-beating, does it?

So golf does provide something to the community.

Anything can give older people something to do. What I was talking about was generating revenue back to the community, which golf clubs don’t do since they’re privately owned; whereas baseball stadiums (your initial complaint) do generate money for the community.

I borrowed clubs and eventually used hand-me-downs.

Well, everyone can play now! They just need to mooch.

I can understand that if you’re anti-capitalist golf must seem like the embodiment of evil.

This:

Consider the findings of “Golf and the Business Executive,” a recent attitudinal study by Hyatt Hotels & Resorts. More than 400 links-loving managers and high-earning salespeople were surveyed. The study found that:

93% percent agreed with the proposition that golfing with a business associate “is a good way to establish a closer relationship.”

80% said they find golfing “a good way to make new business contacts.”

35% agreed with the statement that “some of my biggest business deals were made on the golf course.”

I couldn’t find any demographics on U.S. golfers, only for specific golf clubs with the research done by that golf club, so it was biased.

But if you want to deny that golf and businessmen have no relationship to each other…